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Thread: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

  1. #241
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by LiferJim View Post
    Unfortunately no matter how we slice it, when everyone is healthy, good players are going to have to sit far to often


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    The alternative is to have no legitimate bench at all and rely on callups to get you through the month. The whole of this is about who gets PA and who doesn't. In the end, PA have to be counted. SOME-body has to bat every inning, and the more of them who do, the more likely they score runs. Runs, as we know, are a very important statistic. Earlier, there was a rambling debate about the negative runs total that the team needs to overcome.

    If we have deserving players on the team who need ABs, it seems logical that the ones who ARE getting the ABs are earning it. This continual "theory" that the Reds will somehow use India over somebody else -- for reasons never clarified, other than ... Bell must be stupid -- really, how much more depth do we need to explore on this?

    Sitting far TOO often is the product of a rule that says you can only have 9 guys in a game at one time. If one of them isn't hitting, I don't think it takes a genius for them to notice it. They have data measuring the spin on a baseball thrown from right field. You have to play guys according to their strengths.

    Are we going to continue to shove this dead horse along -- that India somehow is going to ruin the Reds? Is it the hair that's the problem? He's the last guy they signed this winter.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.


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  3. #242
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by j.u.FAIRFIIELD View Post
    The alternative is to have no legitimate bench at all and rely on callups to get you through the month. The whole of this is about who gets PA and who doesn't. In the end, PA have to be counted. SOME-body has to bat every inning, and the more of them who do, the more likely they score runs. Runs, as we know, are a very important statistic. Earlier, there was a rambling debate about the negative runs total that the team needs to overcome.

    If we have deserving players on the team who need ABs, it seems logical that the ones who ARE getting the ABs are earning it. This continual "theory" that the Reds will somehow use India over somebody else -- for reasons never clarified, other than ... Bell must be stupid -- really, how much more depth do we need to explore on this?

    Sitting far TOO often is the product of a rule that says you can only have 9 guys in a game at one time. If one of them isn't hitting, I don't think it takes a genius for them to notice it. They have data measuring the spin on a baseball thrown from right field. You have to play guys according to their strengths.

    Are we going to continue to shove this dead horse along -- that India somehow is going to ruin the Reds? Is it the hair that's the problem? He's the last guy they signed this winter.
    Weve been over and over this. Its my opinion, that Im not trying to sell you on any longer.


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  4. #243
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I don’t see CES, Marte and Candy rotating in the DH spot. They’ll each get DH appearances, but I don’t see that as a regular thing.

    When a RHP is going, Bell is going to want LHH Fraley, Benson, and Friedl in the lineup. Steer will play most every day. One from that group will DH frequently.

    That means somebody (among starters) sits every day. And when India is in there, two guys among starters sit every day. This assumes all are healthy and available.
    Yes, that's true.

    They still get 500+ PAs apiece if healthy. (Aside from Fraley and Benson, who will likely be extremely limited against same-handed pitching.)

    About 700 PAs per position:

    C
    Stephenson-- 400 PAs
    Maile-- 300 PAs

    1B
    Candelario-- 200 PAs
    CES-- 500 PAs

    2B
    McLain-- 500 PAs
    India-- 200 PAs

    SS
    EDLC-- 600 PAs
    McLain-- 100 PAs

    3B
    Marte-- 500 PAs
    Candelario-- 200 PAs

    DH
    Candelario-- 200 PAs
    Fraley-- 250 PAs
    India-- 100 PAs

    LF
    Steer-- 550 PAs
    Fraley-- 150 PAs

    CF
    Friedl-- 550 PAs
    Fairchild-- 150 PAs

    RF
    Benson-- 450 PAs
    India-- 200 PAs
    Fairchild-- 50 PAs

    This assumes 100% health, of course. That won't happen.

    But insisting that someone is going to get the short end of the stick just isn't true.

    The Reds can do this relatively easily if everyone's healthy. (And if they're not, I'd still want a guy like India or Fraley or CES rather than a guy like Barrero getting those PAs.)
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 02-19-2024 at 09:48 AM.

  5. #244
    Member mth123's Avatar
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    We agree on the first five.

    We disagree on the last one.

    Steer is just India dressed up in luck. Their peripherals are really close to each other-- close enough that I'm not going to lose sleep over which one is in the lineup.
    I will say that I don't think India and Steer are that far apart. It's more about fit than ability. The thinking all along is that they have 5 more years of control with Steer and India has reached arb and is likely the one without much future here so he is the one who should go. If the Reds were to include Steer in a deal as part of a package for a rotation upgrade while backfilling in LF with India, I'd be perfectly fine with that. I just don't think either India or Steer fit as a MI option anymore and India seems a poor choice as a platoon guy against LHP. Steer could be used as a RF platoon guy, but a second-year guy coming off of a pretty good season should get a full-time job making India an odd man out and my fear is they are going to force feed him into roles he isn't suited for and allocate a lot of PT to him while better players sit way more than they should.

    India has had 2 bad years in a row. There is a lot of reason to doubt him. He wouldn't be the first guy to have a strong rookie season and then tail off - injury or not, it's what has happened. Steer is coming off of a strong season and the Reds should see if he can maintain or improve on that. If he doesn't then next year he'll probably be the same kind of odd man out that India is now. Add Steer's added years of control and it just seems like he is the future and India is the past even though a lot of what you say about them being similar is true. If India eats into Steer's time, I wouldn't be outraged with that. I'm more concerned he's going to eat into CES, Candelario, Marte, McLain and EDLC time. Those are 5 of the top 6 position players on the roster (with Friedl being the other) and those are the guys whose time he will eat into IMO.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  6. #245
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    IMO, the hand-wringing over whether a guy can hit lefties is just based on some kind of 1990s memory that pitching staffs used a starter for 8 innings. These guys now are lucky to see the same pitcher for 3 at-bats, and there are times when they have to suck it up and let Fraley face Hader. It will just happen. Those cases, you hope Jake can bloop one down the line and get a stat line that boosts his OB average against southies.

    You can plan the plan but the minute you take down a lefty hitter because a lefty comes in, the next inning, a righty comes in and you either won the moment or you didn't. Assuming that every given situation is one you can micromanage is absurd. The 162 reveals a lot of things but it's also not perfect. Sometimes, 10-game winning streaks include a couple of lucky hops. Recalling a game last year in Arizona that the Reds essentially won -- on a balk.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.

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  8. #246
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    The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Managing the days off as I see it.

    If CES, Candelario and Marte rotate through the DH spot with the other 2 in the field, then the only time the DH spot will be open is if one of them gets a day off and since all three are getting a lighter than normal load by rotating through the DH spot, I don't see them needing a lot of days off. Ten to twelve days per year each should be enough. On the days one of them does sit, I suspect Steer will be the DH with Fraley and Benson in the OF corners.

    When EDLC needs a day off, Marte slides over to SS, Candelario plays 3B, CES at 1B, Steer at DH with Fraley and Benson in the OF corners. I'd guess about 15 off days per season for EDLC.

    When Steer, Benson or Fraley need a day off, the other two will man the OF corners. Since Steer is seeing 40 to 50 starts at DH, I don't expect him to need a lot of days off. Fraley and Benson will sit against LHP, so they already have all the days off they need.

    When Friedl needs a day off, I'm guessing Fairchild will get those starts at first, but they may slide Fraley in there so all three of Steer, Fraley and Benson can play. Blake Dunn or Jacob Hurtubise may force their way into this picture at some point.

    When McLain needs a day off India probably plays second base. Let's be conservative and say McLain needs 20 days off per year (I think that's too many personally).

    Against LHP, India will play LF with Steer sliding over to RF. Forget the nightmares of fly balls falling in all over the place and let's call that about 50 games per year.

    That's about 70 starts for India without eating into the time of the other players. 50 of those could have easily been filled by signing a cheap FA to platoon in RF who is likely more potent offensively in that situation and already proven as a capable OF.

    I understand that India is a pretty decent insurance policy in case of Injury, but the Reds could recall Hurtubise or Dunn in the event of an injury and rotate guys in a similar fashion to cover for somebody going down. The only place the Reds are truly exposed is if McLain goes down for a lengthy period. I think if that happens, the Reds are toast anyway with or without India on the roster.
    I see little chance that Marte plays much SS at all. Hes not a very good defensive player, even at 3B. McLain will back up ELDC as he and ELDC will likely never take a day off at same time if they are both healthy. India will play 2b on those days.


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  10. #247
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I see little chance that Marte plays much SS at all. He’s not a very good defensive player, even at 3B. McLain will back up ELDC as he and ELDC will likely never take a day off at same time if they are both healthy. India will play 2b on those days.


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    Marte had fallen out of favor with the Mariners because he’d gotten so big there was — and still is — some question over whether he’ll stay on the dirt, and I think no real shot for him to stay at shortstop. To his credit, he’s maintained some of his athleticism and speed even as he’s filled out so quickly, and while he probably won’t be a rangy third baseman he should make all of the necessary plays to be at least average there.

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  12. #248
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    I think there are a couple of other outlier players who will get some numbers. Martini likely will get 75 PA and Austin Wynns might get more than we hope to see. That's just because over a season, there are players who get called up for reasons unknown. Wynns might get 150 PA.
    Quantum computing promises to be a revolutionary tool, making short work of equations that classical computers would struggle to ever complete. Yet the workhorse of the quantum device, known as a qubit, is a delicate object prone to collapsing.

  13. #249
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    I see little chance that Marte plays much SS at all. He’s not a very good defensive player, even at 3B. McLain will back up ELDC as he and ELDC will likely never take a day off at same time if they are both healthy. India will play 2b on those days.


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    Depends on the roster. But if Reds’ middle infielders are solely McLain, EDLC, India and Marte, I’d guess Marte will get his share of playing time at short. I can’t predict the exact circumstances, who gets injured, who gets rested, etc., but four players is not a very deep group to handle those positions - if that’s how they put together the roster.

    If they keep Barrero in the bigs, for example, then I’d agree that Marte won’t play much middle infield.

  14. #250
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Depends on the roster. But if Reds’ middle infielders are solely McLain, EDLC, India and Marte, I’d guess Marte will get his share of playing time at short. I can’t predict the exact circumstances, who gets injured, who gets rested, etc., but four players is not a very deep group to handle those positions - if that’s how they put together the roster.

    If they keep Barrero in the bigs, for example, then I’d agree that Marte won’t play much middle infield.
    I'd rather see Marte at SS than Barrero. He was a disaster last year and not just offensively. The Reds only have 2 MI who should play more than once in a blue moon.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

  15. #251
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    Re: The Decision to Move Steer to the Outfield (Instead of India)

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    The Reds are basically one injury away from rendering all of the hand wringing over India and playing time a moot point.

    Two injuries away from a Kevin Newman or Matt Reynolds.
    ...or PED suspension.

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