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Thread: Noelvi Marte

  1. #106
    Member LiferJim's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    All very good points and I was basically curious as to what others thought in regards to his current AAA statistics. His K rate is currently only 28 percent, so maybe hes hitting into tough luck.


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  3. #107
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyder View Post
    Spring Training getting timing down. You can spend all the time in the world in the batting cage doesn't mean anything because it's not the same as taking live game abs. How's he looked, has he looked like Benson, has he been getting extremely unlucky, is he late on the fastball, swinging at junk? There's more to it than just batting average. That's what scouts and coaches are suppose to be there for.
    Swinging at junk.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  4. #108
    Member jimbroznan's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    There's speculation that Roger Maris was using anabolic steroids during the 61-62 seasons, when his home run numbers were wildly above his career norm.
    Steroids were readily available.

    1954 As the U.S.S.R. begins to dominate the sport of powerlifting, a Soviet team doctor allegedly reveals his team's use of testosterone injections to U.S. weightlifting doctor John Ziegler; Ziegler begins work on creating a refined synthesis technique that would produce a compound with the muscle-building benefits of testosterone without androgenic side effects, such as prostate enlargement.

    1958 Ziegler's anabolic steroid -- methandrostenolone -- is released by Ciba Pharmaceuticals under the name Dianabol.
    https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/...eroid-timeline

    San Diego Chargers won a championship using Dianabol in 1963.
    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    JFK was also receiving regular steroid injections along with 1/2 the drugs listed in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) so Maris using steroid is not that far out also Mantle had to deal with his injuries and may have received Dianabol. It was a legal drug so why not?

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  6. #109
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbroznan View Post
    Steroids were readily available.

    1954 As the U.S.S.R. begins to dominate the sport of powerlifting, a Soviet team doctor allegedly reveals his team's use of testosterone injections to U.S. weightlifting doctor John Ziegler; Ziegler begins work on creating a refined synthesis technique that would produce a compound with the muscle-building benefits of testosterone without androgenic side effects, such as prostate enlargement.

    1958 Ziegler's anabolic steroid -- methandrostenolone -- is released by Ciba Pharmaceuticals under the name Dianabol.
    https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/...eroid-timeline

    San Diego Chargers won a championship using Dianabol in 1963.
    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    JFK was also receiving regular steroid injections along with 1/2 the drugs listed in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) so Maris using steroid is not that far out also Mantle had to deal with his injuries and may have received Dianabol. It was a legal drug so why not?
    Drysdale said he took so many pain killers to pitch he could barely read giant scoreboard mid game

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  8. #110
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Drysdale said he took so many pain killers to pitch he could barely read giant scoreboard mid game
    Koufax said basically the same thing - "“It was a year,” he said, “of a few too many shots, and a few too many pills. I was walking around sick to my stomach; I was half high on the mound."

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  10. #111
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbroznan View Post
    Koufax said basically the same thing - "“It was a year,” he said, “of a few too many shots, and a few too many pills. I was walking around sick to my stomach; I was half high on the mound."
    That's why Koufax retired early.
    He said he couldn't stand the pain and every thing that goes with it anymore and wanted to lead as much of a normal life as he could as he grew older.

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  12. #112
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Unless he was borrowing Mickey’s stuff and by now this would be talked about a lot more than it’s speculation well after the fact. I know steroids were more prevalent in Europe or at least chemical assistance like the miracle at Brenn during the 1954 World Cup Final by West Germany.

  13. #113
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbroznan View Post
    Steroids were readily available.

    1954 As the U.S.S.R. begins to dominate the sport of powerlifting, a Soviet team doctor allegedly reveals his team's use of testosterone injections to U.S. weightlifting doctor John Ziegler; Ziegler begins work on creating a refined synthesis technique that would produce a compound with the muscle-building benefits of testosterone without androgenic side effects, such as prostate enlargement.

    1958 Ziegler's anabolic steroid -- methandrostenolone -- is released by Ciba Pharmaceuticals under the name Dianabol.
    https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/...eroid-timeline

    San Diego Chargers won a championship using Dianabol in 1963.
    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    JFK was also receiving regular steroid injections along with 1/2 the drugs listed in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) so Maris using steroid is not that far out also Mantle had to deal with his injuries and may have received Dianabol. It was a legal drug so why not?
    These other instances of people using anabolic steroids, or whatever, during that time frame is not sound evidence to assume Maris and Mantle were. Need far more evidence then that. Besides. Mantle was too drunk most of the time anyway.

    Pain killers, bennies? Oh yeah.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  14. #114
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    These steroid accusations going way back seems like a silly desperate attempt to throw some cover to the obvious steroid abusers of the 90's and later. Whatever Mantle was on was certainly not a performance enhancer.

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  16. #115
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    I highly doubt Mantle or Maris were on any steroids. If they were we will never know since both are dead and anyone getting that to them is probably dead too. If anything they may have been amphetamines. But I am not sure that would effect performance that wildly. That was just one of those years were some guys were having unusually big years. You have to remember that was an expansion year in the AL too. I am sure the pitching was watered down some.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

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  18. #116
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbroznan View Post
    Steroids were readily available.

    1954 As the U.S.S.R. begins to dominate the sport of powerlifting, a Soviet team doctor allegedly reveals his team's use of testosterone injections to U.S. weightlifting doctor John Ziegler; Ziegler begins work on creating a refined synthesis technique that would produce a compound with the muscle-building benefits of testosterone without androgenic side effects, such as prostate enlargement.

    1958 Ziegler's anabolic steroid -- methandrostenolone -- is released by Ciba Pharmaceuticals under the name Dianabol.
    https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/...eroid-timeline

    San Diego Chargers won a championship using Dianabol in 1963.
    https://www.espn.com/espn/otl/news/story?id=3866837

    JFK was also receiving regular steroid injections along with 1/2 the drugs listed in the PDR (Physicians Desk Reference) so Maris using steroid is not that far out also Mantle had to deal with his injuries and may have received Dianabol. It was a legal drug so why not?
    While that's true, weight training wasn't a big part of a baseball player's training regimen. Conventional wisdom was that they would bulk you up and make you inflexible and susceptible to muscle pulls. In September of 1961 Mantle actually went to a doctor to see if he could get a cure for what ailed him: Head cold, pulled forearm muscle, respiratory infection, eye infection and the usual leg injuries. He basically received a shot of amphetamines (no steroids, anabolic or otherwise) and the shot was bad and gave him an abcess on his hip and a fever and an infection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

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  20. #117
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    While that's true, weight training wasn't a big part of a baseball player's training regimen. Conventional wisdom was that they would bulk you up and make you inflexible and susceptible to muscle pulls. In September of 1961 Mantle actually went to a doctor to see if he could get a cure for what ailed him: Head cold, pulled forearm muscle, respiratory infection, eye infection and the usual leg injuries. He basically received a shot of amphetamines (no steroids, anabolic or otherwise) and the shot was bad and gave him an abcess on his hip and a fever and an infection.
    Nearly everything that happened to Mantle as a Yankee could be laid at the feet of crappy doctors and crackpot medicine. Mantle might never have turned so heavily to booze to dull the pain and could have ended up the greatest of all time.

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  22. #118
    Member jimbroznan's Avatar
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    Re: Noelvi Marte

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Nearly everything that happened to Mantle as a Yankee could be laid at the feet of crappy doctors and crackpot medicine. Mantle might never have turned so heavily to booze to dull the pain and could have ended up the greatest of all time.
    Mantle was a patient of Dr Jacobson aka Dr Feelgood (likely inspired the Beatles' Dr Roberts). He was JFK's personal physician and kept him totally wired. He was also the doctor to many Hollywood/government elite. On the Yankees he treat both Mantle and Mel Allen.
    'When he began treating Mickey Mantle in late September 1961 for a case of the flu, Jacobson's injection into Mantle's hip caused a severe abscessing septic infection at the injection site that hospitalized Mantle and threatened his career. "
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Jacobson

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