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Thread: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

  1. #76
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by CaiGuy View Post
    Honesty, all of the hand wringing will be for not after the first major injury or after one of the younger players proves to be a bust (it will happen).

    Even more likely is multiple injuries and multiple busts leave the Reds seeking more position help.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If a guy can hit decently and play up the middle, he is probably starting somewhere, not hanging around on the Reds bench.
    So your position is a good utility player who can handle up the middle defense is impossible. Doesn’t exist. Not something the Reds front office can possibly find. 100% of those guys are starters.

    If I get a chance, I’ll look through the rosters, but at first glance, Keke Hernandez, Taylor Walls, Chris Taylor are utility guys who play plenty of shortstop. Maybe not Ozzie Smith defensively, but there are primary utility guys who handle up the middle positions. I’m sure there are others.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-07-2024 at 08:43 AM.


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  3. #77
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't disagree with this. I've been saying all along that I don't hate India, I hate the plan. I just don't think it's Bell alone making that plan. It's an organizational philosophy IMO.
    Yes, you have certainly stated you hate the plan. But, in between, are dozens and dozens of posts about poor fits, square pegs, lack of proven LHP mashers and other personnel related decisions. Getting rid of India and signing Adam Duvall is not going to result in a different organizational philosophy. They would play Duvall "at the expense of better players" against RHP because he would likely want that kind of role to sign and the organizational philosophy would be to build talent and rest players
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

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  5. #78
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Yes, I suspect it is.

    You have to wonder, then, why the organization would value quality depth, then, and giving extensive rest throughout the season.

    This was Dick Williams in 2018:



    Williams came in with an eye toward modernizing prospect development and making a more competitive Red team. He spent relatively big bucks on studies about rest, days off, etc. I'm guessing that's still what is driving the Red plan. We will not (likely) ever see that, but we know what their philosophy seems to be: lots of rest keeps players more productive and healtheir than playing them every day.
    What I don't like specifically is:

    1. India is going to be inserted into the 1B/3B/DH rotation that already has 3 full-time players (Candy/CES/Marte) as well as an extra OF among Benson/Fraley/Steer who will also be getting DH time. I think the consequence of that will be too much reduced playing time for both Marte and CES. It will probably eat into Steer's time as well, but that's a lesser issue for me.

    2. They didn't fill the RH OF role so they could make PT for India in that position. Bell's statement was that we'd see India in LF and Steer in RF against RHP. The defense will be awful, but I'm more concerned about the offense. India is a fairly pedestrian, I'd even say below average, bat against LHP and that role calls for a specialist who mashes against LHP. There were several out there for that job, but the Reds haven't pursued them becasue they needed a way to find more PAs for India.

    Again, if India is treated as a reserve player who gets 250 to 300 PAs barring a major injury, I think it's great depth and am OK with the plan, though I think it's not optimal against LHP. If he's treated as a roving full-time player, which is what I gather from everything I read, then better players will see reduced time and that is the plan I hate.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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  7. #79
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What I don't like specifically is:

    1. India is going to be inserted into the 1B/3B/DH rotation that already has 3 full-time players (Candy/CES/Marte) as well as an extra OF among Benson/Fraley/Steer who will also be getting DH time. I think the consequence of that will be too much reduced playing time for both Marte and CES. It will probably eat into Steer's time as well, but that's a lesser issue for me.

    2. They didn't fill the RH OF role so they could make PT for India in that position. Bell's statement was that we'd see India in LF and Steer in RF against RHP. The defense will be awful, but I'm more concerned about the offense. India is a fairly pedestrian, I'd even say below average, bat against LHP and that role calls for a specialist who mashes against LHP. There were several out there for that job, but the Reds haven't pursued them becasue they needed a way to find more PAs for India.

    Again, if India is treated as a reserve player who gets 250 to 300 PAs barring a major injury, I think it's great depth and am OK with the plan, though I think it's not optimal against LHP. If he's treated as a roving full-time player, which is what I gather from everything I read, then better players will see reduced time and that is the plan I hate.
    This is conjecture, at best. Fiction, at worst
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

  8. #80
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    So your position is a good utility player who can handle up the middle defense is impossible. Doesn’t exist. Not something the Reds front office can possibly find. 100% of those guys are starters.

    If I get a chance, I’ll look through the rosters, but at first glance, Keke Hernandez, Taylor Walls, Chris Taylor are utility guys who play plenty of shortstop. Maybe not Ozzie Smith defensively, but there are primary utility guys who handle up the middle positions. I’m sure there are others.
    Taylor Walls and Kike Hernandez can handle SS but are not even decent hitters. I'd love to have Taylor but he'd be tied with Candy for the highest paid position player on the Reds
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

  9. #81
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    What I don't like specifically is:

    1. India is going to be inserted into the 1B/3B/DH rotation that already has 3 full-time players (Candy/CES/Marte) as well as an extra OF among Benson/Fraley/Steer who will also be getting DH time. I think the consequence of that will be too much reduced playing time for both Marte and CES. It will probably eat into Steer's time as well, but that's a lesser issue for me.

    2. They didn't fill the RH OF role so they could make PT for India in that position. Bell's statement was that we'd see India in LF and Steer in RF against RHP. The defense will be awful, but I'm more concerned about the offense. India is a fairly pedestrian, I'd even say below average, bat against LHP and that role calls for a specialist who mashes against LHP. There were several out there for that job, but the Reds haven't pursued them becasue they needed a way to find more PAs for India.

    Again, if India is treated as a reserve player who gets 250 to 300 PAs barring a major injury, I think it's great depth and am OK with the plan, though I think it's not optimal against LHP. If he's treated as a roving full-time player, which is what I gather from everything I read, then better players will see reduced time and that is the plan I hate.
    I’m sure everyone involved understands that India as a roving player isn’t a perfect solution. I’m sure India, the Reds, his agent, all understand this. But Reds probably were unable to get a good return in a trade. They preferred, for now, to keep India, his offense, his leadership.

    It isn’t a perfect fit but eventually the situation will clarify, either this year or after.

    I have a lot of sympathy for your arguments, but he’s not a bad player, he will contribute. Marte, CES et al will get plenty of playing time. The Reds made the judgment not to give India away; I think we can respect that call and hope his health and bat are restored to his rookie year levels.

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  11. #82
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I’m sure everyone involved understands that India as a roving player isn’t a perfect solution. I’m sure India, the Reds, his agent, all understand this. But Reds probably were unable to get a good return in a trade. They preferred, for now, to keep India, his offense, his leadership.

    It isn’t a perfect fit but eventually the situation will clarify, either this year or after.

    I have a lot of sympathy for your arguments, but he’s not a bad player, he will contribute. Marte, CES et al will get plenty of playing time. The Reds made the judgment not to give India away; I think we can respect that call and hope his health and bat are restored to his rookie year levels.
    One thing I'd like to add is that the Candelario signing this offseason is what really gummed up the works here. There would have been plenty of 1B/3B/DH time for India and room for a short side platoon-ish OFer to carve out a 100-110 game role
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

  12. #83
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    Taylor Walls and Kike Hernandez can handle SS but are not even decent hitters. I'd love to have Taylor but he'd be tied with Candy for the highest paid position player on the Reds
    The Dodgers and Rays, two pretty fair organizations, have chosen these guys for utility. They all provide depth at shortstop.

    I guess those types do exist. And I’m sure some good utilty guys exist who play CF too.

  13. #84
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post

    Marte, CES et al will get plenty of playing time.
    What, in your opinion, is the definition of "plenty of playing time"?

  14. #85
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    What, in your opinion, is the definition of "plenty of playing time"?
    400 PA's is mine

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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    400 PA's is mine
    That's about 90-100 full games. Between AAA and the majors last year, CES had 550 plate appearances combined, I'm really not for him getting less work in 2024.

  17. #87
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    That's about 90-100 full games. Between AAA and the majors last year, CES had 550 plate appearances combined, I'm really not for him getting less work in 2024.
    How many guys do you think should/will get 400 PA's on this team?

  18. #88
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    How many guys do you think should/will get 400 PA's on this team?
    Pending injuries obviously:

    Candy, Friedl, Steer, CES, Marte, McLain, and Elly should be everyday players with the goal of getting them 150 starts.

    Fraley and Benson should play everyday there is a righty starter, and I’d like Benson to start getting eased into facing some LHB.

    I believe the Reds plan on India playing virtually everyday also.

    I really don’t know how it’s all going to work, but in my opinion they need to err on the side of getting McLain, Elly, Marte, Steer, and CES as close to 600 plate appearances as possible.

  19. #89
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Dodgers and Rays, two pretty fair organizations, have chosen these guys for utility. They all provide depth at shortstop.

    I guess those types do exist. And I’m sure some good utilty guys exist who play CF too.
    The claim was never that those players do not exist. They certainly exist in Chris Taylor, who is getting paid $15M annually to do so. I also do not find Hernandez and Walls to be adequate hitters to justify purging India, whether or not the Rays or Dodgers are using them as utility players. I use the purging India standard because replacing Fairchild would not offer enough playing time for a "decent utility guy".
    "The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690

  20. #90
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    Re: 2024 Reds Injury Updates

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    400 PA's is mine
    Do you honestly think 400 PA is enough at bats for the teams best power hitter?


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