2024 Starting Pitchers Rotation

[LeatherPants]

But of course the best thing they can do, in a winning season, is be buyers at the deadline and stock up on more pitching for the stretch drive.

Which they failed to do last year when they were in first at the deadline.

Reds fans are Charlie Brown and the front office is Lucy with the football.

[LeatherPants]

Hunter is a 24 game starter, Abbott is a 25 game starter, and Lodolo is a 20 game starter (at most). Take that information and plan accordingly. The Reds need to find 93 games plus the playoffs worth of starters in 2025, and the really need to add at least one that is a TOR starter with playoff experience if the plan is to contend next year.

Build a 95 win team, so that if the worst happens maybe they can still be a 85 win team.

[Boss-Hog]

Greene, Lodolo and Abbott would need rehab time in September. Why push them for more starts, to get in another dozen innings? The balance to me favors preserving health and not pushing things.

After this year, I doubt Reds would restrain Greene or Abbott in a winning season. Lodolo is injury prone, he may always have innings limits. He may wind up in the bullpen.

Lowder, Aguiar, etc., would face innings limits. That’s the nature of rebuilding with kids. I don’t expect that youth-oriented plan to change.

Reds will probably add an “innings eater” or two for next year. But of course the best thing they can do, in a winning season, is be buyers at the deadline and stock up on more pitching for the stretch drive.

I thought your argument was that Greene and Abbott would likely be pitching right now if these games mattered instead of shut down at the moment. If your argument is whatever is currently ailing them is legitimate and not just a way to limit their innings in a lost season, then I misunderstood, and we agree it makes no sense to push them the rest of this year even if they come back healthy from whatever is currently going on. Lodolo's injury seems to be legitimate, so I'm not including him in that conversation.

[Kc61]

I thought your argument was that Greene and Abbott would likely be pitching right now if these games mattered instead of shut down at the moment. If your argument is whatever is currently ailing them is legitimate and not just a way to limit their innings in a lost season, then I misunderstood, and we agree it makes no sense to push them the rest of this year even if they come back healthy from whatever is currently going on. Lodolo's injury seems to be legitimate, so I'm not including him in that conversation.

I don’t doubt there’s injury, but in a winning season guys sometimes play through injuries. Teams are more aggressive in having them play. Greene’s absence seems precautionary, there’s no serious damage, so it’s possible he would still be pitching in a pennant race.

That’s what I meant.

[Tony Cloninger]

I agree with KC. I already think Hunter and Lodolo are just being rested with soreness and discomfort but not enough to shut down. I mean they are close to their limits this year which were what? 160-175? The Tigers are not shutting down their LH Cy Young candidate yet. Lopez from ATL has already pitched almost half of the innings he pitched in the last 4 years prior. Was already hurt. Now is back pitching again. Gil from the Yankees is being rested after hitting 120 innings and previously never pitching more than 97 innings since 2019. This isn’t just the Reds issue or the Reds don’t know what they are doing or why are they not shutting every one down issue. They just have no trust among this board about much of anything.

[CaiGuy]

At what point do inning limits stop becoming a problem? Some of these guys are entering their forth MLB season. You only get 6 to start with.

[Strikes Out Looking]

At what point do inning limits stop becoming a problem? Some of these guys are entering their forth MLB season. You only get 6 to start with.

About 2 weeks ago.

[RustyJ]

At what point do inning limits stop becoming a problem? Some of these guys are entering their forth MLB season. You only get 6 to start with.

This is my problem with using tons of draft resources on pitching. One TJ is really hard to avoid, add two or three other nagging injuries along the way. Then when they’re healthy, you’re cautiously squeezing out value in between strict pitch counts and 3-4 years of innings limits. Even a guy who develops well and is ostensibly a success story doesn’t really produce that much cumulative value in the pre-FA years.

I understand protecting the Greene/Burns types because they present such huge incremental value when they’re on the mound. A Lowder type I’m kind of to the point of just letting it rip and getting the value while you can.

[MoneyInTheBank]

This is my problem with using tons of draft resources on pitching. One TJ is really hard to avoid, add two or three other nagging injuries along the way. Then when they’re healthy, you’re cautiously squeezing out value in between strict pitch counts and 3-4 years of innings limits. Even a guy who develops well and is ostensibly a success story doesn’t really produce that much cumulative value in the pre-FA years.

I understand protecting the Greene/Burns types because they present such huge incremental value when they’re on the mound. A Lowder type I’m kind of to the point of just letting it rip and getting the value while you can.

I'm the opposite. This is the reason you DO spend so much draft capital on pitching. It's tradeable for bats and signing position players to LTCs in free agency is much less scary from an injury standpoint

[Reds Freak]

Cueto DFA'd. Reds should find a way to grab him to eat innings in September and retire as a Red.

[Ron Madden]

Brandon Williamson’s solid return sets up Reds win vs. the Brewers

Last year, Brandon Williamson was the Reds’ most consistent starter. He didn’t show the flashes of potential that Hunter Greene and Andrew Abbott showed, but Williamson looked like a pitcher the Reds could build with. He mixes and matches five pitches and has an unorthodox throwing motion for a left-hander.

The biggest concern with him has always been his left shoulder. In 2022, when Williamson was in the minor leagues, he said that his shoulder was the reason for his disappointing season.

When Williamson’s shoulder injury popped back up in 2024, season-ending surgery was on the table. Williamson opted to rehab his injury, and he and the Reds came up with an approach that could help him take some of the wear-and-tear off of his shoulder

Williamson did exercises that increased his hip flexibility, added 15 pounds and developed the ability to throw the ball with less stress on his shoulder

It worked, and he looked like his old self in his season debut.

See Full Story Here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/oth...wsVerp#image=2

[MoneyInTheBank]

Brandon Williamson’s solid return sets up Reds win vs. the Brewers
See Full Story Here:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/oth...wsVerp#image=2

I hadn't really considered Williamson being ramped up multiple times this season would abbreviate his latest rehab stint. Thanks for posting Ron

[Kc61]

Some positive developments on the starting pitching front -

Greene and Abbott potentially returning this season. Whether one agrees with the strategy, this confirms that they don’t have serious injuries. The report on Lodolo not bad either.

Williamson looks pretty good - IMO looks better than last year - in two appearances. Could provide meaningful help next year.

Good outing by Connor Phillips - only one outing but a hopeful sign. Whether he winds up in rotation or pen, either way would help.

[Bourgeois Zee]

At what point do inning limits stop becoming a problem? Some of these guys are entering their forth MLB season. You only get 6 to start with.

Greene and Abbott are 160-180 IP guys next season.
Lodolo looks fragile-- he should likely be treated with kid gloves.
Williamson was hurt for much of the season, but he's older. I'd use him, as mth has suggested, in the Nick Martinez role, looking to approach the 120-ish innings he had in 2023.
Lowder's young, but he's already thrown 110 innings this year-- he should be fine, relatively speaking.
Ashcraft is reliably BOR and an innings eater if they choose to go that route.
Petty and Aguiar (as AAA arms) look like they're going to hit 135 innings this season-- or at least come close. They should be good for 150 next season, between AAA and the majors.

They have plenty of innings at their disposal, if healthy.

[LeatherPants]

Greene and Abbott are 160-180 IP guys next season.
Lodolo looks fragile-- he should likely be treated with kid gloves.
Williamson was hurt for much of the season, but he's older. I'd use him, as mth has suggested, in the Nick Martinez role, looking to approach the 120-ish innings he had in 2023.
Lowder's young, but he's already thrown 110 innings this year-- he should be fine, relatively speaking.
Ashcraft is reliably BOR and an innings eater if they choose to go that route.
Petty and Aguiar (as AAA arms) look like they're going to hit 135 innings this season-- or at least come close. They should be good for 150 next season, between AAA and the majors.

They have plenty of innings at their disposal, if healthy.

Green and Abbott aren't 160-180 guys until they've actually done it. But yes, I'm sure that's the plan.