Reds Acquire Santiago Espinal

[mth123]

I would agree with you, but you got two uncertainties in Marte and CES.

Where are people getting that 5M is Espinal’s salary? According to Cots it’s 2.75M/yr. Signing Espinal for ‘25 is not going to strap this organization financially. They took the yearly payroll down to approximately 100M. They have a spending issue. They refuse to spend.

He's arb eligible. He'll be in the $5 Million range next year. This year doesn't matter..

[LeatherPants]

I would agree with you, but you got two uncertainties in Marte and CES.

Where are people getting that 5M is Espinal’s salary? According to Cots it’s 2.75M/yr. Signing Espinal for ‘25 is not going to strap this organization financially. They took the yearly payroll down to approximately 100M. They have a spending issue. They refuse to spend.

He's arbitration eligible and $5 million is the estimate.

[Ron Madden]

Santiago Espinal is on a Heater at the moment, Enjoy The Moment it's unlikely to last much longer.

[dreghorntwo]

I'll take a different stance, in that i would play a lighter hitting Espinal everyday rather than a league average hitting much worse defender in India.

In addition i would like to know why the Reds took the half-measured approach of keeping India because they 'didn't want to give up on the season', yet they've handed Marte 134 ABs of sub .180 hitting with a large strikeout rate and, despite a 3 game stretch, poor defense? The Reds aren't totally out of contention yet and they certainly weren't when they started turning Marte's spot in the order into a black hole.

I'm in the camp that believes defense is undervalued and that a young staff should be protected from longer innings and outs being given away by providing them with a much better defense then the Reds have given them this year, and going forward every effort should be made to re-balance and emphasize this. McLain coming back will help Espinal will have to be kept for insurance, Marte is no sure thing in any respect and the outfield defense has to be improved.

I can't imagine any scenario that has players like India penciled in anywhere like 3rd or in the outfield, or Candelario at 3rd ever being considered.

Flame away.

Having a team that is poor offensively.. and defensively is the worst of all worlds.

[RiverfrontRed]

I'll take a different stance, in that i would play a lighter hitting Espinal everyday rather than a league average hitting much worse defender in India.

In addition i would like to know why the Reds took the half-measured approach of keeping India because they 'didn't want to give up on the season', yet they've handed Marte 134 ABs of sub .180 hitting with a large strikeout rate and, despite a 3 game stretch, poor defense? The Reds aren't totally out of contention yet and they certainly weren't when they started turning Marte's spot in the order into a black hole.

I'm in the camp that believes defense is undervalued and that a young staff should be protected from longer innings and outs being given away by providing them with a much better defense then the Reds have given them this year, and going forward every effort should be made to re-balance and emphasize this. McLain coming back will help Espinal will have to be kept for insurance, Marte is no sure thing in any respect and the outfield defense has to be improved.

I can't imagine any scenario that has players like India penciled in anywhere like 3rd or in the outfield, or Candelario at 3rd ever being considered.

Flame away.

Having a team that is poor offensively.. and defensively is the worst of all worlds.

Why, do you think this is a hot take?

[dreghorntwo]

Why, do you think this is a hot take?

No perhaps not, but i've seen that Espinal has been discounted as nothing more than a fringe player on a hot streak and India is a popular player on this board. In addition people have been saying that Marte must play every game etc..

Discount the flame away, i'm not sure why i included it.

[mth123]

I'll take a different stance, in that i would play a lighter hitting Espinal everyday rather than a league average hitting much worse defender in India.

In addition i would like to know why the Reds took the half-measured approach of keeping India because they 'didn't want to give up on the season', yet they've handed Marte 134 ABs of sub .180 hitting with a large strikeout rate and, despite a 3 game stretch, poor defense? The Reds aren't totally out of contention yet and they certainly weren't when they started turning Marte's spot in the order into a black hole.

I'm in the camp that believes defense is undervalued and that a young staff should be protected from longer innings and outs being given away by providing them with a much better defense then the Reds have given them this year, and going forward every effort should be made to re-balance and emphasize this. McLain coming back will help Espinal will have to be kept for insurance, Marte is no sure thing in any respect and the outfield defense has to be improved.

I can't imagine any scenario that has players like India penciled in anywhere like 3rd or in the outfield, or Candelario at 3rd ever being considered.

Flame away.

Having a team that is poor offensively.. and defensively is the worst of all worlds.

Because the 2B is going to be McLain who is a very strong defender. India would be the DH where his defense isn't an issue.

Espinal isn't playing ahead of McLain. As DH, India, who still leads the team in OBP even with his recent struggles, is a far superior choice compared to Espinal.

Espinal would play very little in that scenario in an end of the bench defensive specialist role that could be filled any of a number of guys who will be available over the winter for a lot less money.

The Reds need to come up with about $50 Million to sign a clean-up hitter, a number 3 starter and a late inning fireman. It doesn't make sense to pay the 26th man as much as Espinal will make in arbitration.

[Kc61]

We don’t know enough about next year’s roster to decide the fate of Espinal. The assumption of McLain as the everyday second baseman is just one of several assumptions people are making.

If it turns out Reds will be short a starting infielder, India is the better choice. He can hit RHP much better than Espinal.

If it turns out the Reds need a true backup infielder, then arguably Espinal is a better choice. Better defender, plays shortstop, and not a zero offensively.

[Chip R]

Of course we don't need Espinal for 2025. Because no one who plays the IF has a history with injuries, right?

[LeatherPants]

We don’t know enough about next year’s roster to decide the fate of Espinal. The assumption of McLain as the everyday second baseman is just one of several assumptions people are making.

If it turns out Reds will be short a starting infielder, India is the better choice. He can hit RHP much better than Espinal.

If it turns out the Reds need a true backup infielder, then arguably Espinal is a better choice. Better defender, plays shortstop, and not a zero offensively.

But a decision will need to be made regarding Espinal before most of these things are going to become more clear, which is kind of the point.

I doubt he’s going to be offered arbitration by the Reds.

[dreghorntwo]

See that's the thing if you keep India then you create a real logjam. If he's a full time DH then where does Candelario play, it can't be third and Steer should just stay at first and be a guy that can fill in everywhere in a pinch. Espinal is cover at 2nd, 3rd and short. Marte still has a lot to prove, and as mentioned he shouldn't be doing it as an everyday player right now, there is still a reason to try and win.

The outfield defense has got to improve and there should only be one platoon not two or three. In a perfect world Friedl plays left and the Reds move heaven and earth to get a real CF. If they can't, which seems likely, then a corner bat is the way to go and they can keep 2 of Benson, Fairchild and Fraley. Fraley should be the one to go but i'm not sure of the situation with his child, it may be that you can't move him because of the ties to local doctors etc.. a certain amount of sensitivity might have to be considered, as it should.

India should be packaged with whatever combination is required to get a corner OF bat, or the holy grail a true 3rd baseman that can provide hitting and defense. Going into next season with the hope that Marte, CES, Candelario or whomever is a 3rd base answer is very worrisome and in my opinion not a good bet.

My dream is a trade for a CF or 3B and a free agent signing for CF or a corner OF or vice versa.

Two legit acquisitions along with the normal bullpen churning, McLains return, Elly improving and the starters continuing to mature and the Reds can be as set as a small market can be for a nice 2025 run.

It doesn't seem like too much to ask and with the clock ticking it's time to get serious.

[CySeymour]

India should be packaged with whatever combination is required to get a corner OF bat, or the holy grail a true 3rd baseman that can provide hitting and defense. Going into next season with the hope that Marte, CES, Candelario or whomever is a 3rd base answer is very worrisome and in my opinion not a good bet.

India won't bring you a corner bat, especially as the center player going in return. You'll need to part with prospects for that.

[dreghorntwo]

India won't bring you a corner bat, especially as the center player going in return. You'll need to part with prospects for that.

I agree completely he'll only be one of the parts.

Should have been dealt at the deadline if they planned on playing Marte every day no matter what.

[Kc61]

But a decision will need to be made regarding Espinal before most of these things are going to become more clear, which is kind of the point.

I doubt he’s going to be offered arbitration by the Reds.

As I’m sure you’re aware, the arbitration non-tender deadline is in mid-November. That’s three months from now. By then, the Reds will have a clearer expectation of their 2025 roster. Not perfect information, but enough to make arbitration decisions.

If their infield is still uncertain, I expect they will negotiate with Espinal to sign him up. I doubt it will come to $5 million. But it will involve a meaningful raise over last season.

[CySeymour]

I agree completely he'll only be one of the parts.

Should have been dealt at the deadline if they planned on playing Marte every day no matter what.

Even then I don't see that happening, but we can just agree to disagree. If India get's moved it would probably be for a B level prospect and lower.