Reds Acquire Santiago Espinal

[mth123]

He should be playing 3rd base everyday until the Reds are out of the playoff picture.

The Reds are out of the play-off picture. They won't come out and say it, but they are.

[Ky Fried Redleg]

I would agree with you, but you got two uncertainties in Marte and CES.

Where are people getting that 5M is Espinal’s salary? According to Cots it’s 2.75M/yr. Signing Espinal for ‘25 is not going to strap this organization financially. They took the yearly payroll down to approximately 100M. They have a spending issue. They refuse to spend.

And that's the bottom line... And when they do spend, they spend weirdly(Mike Minor).

[dreghorntwo]

The Reds are out of the play-off picture. They won't come out and say it, but they are.

Probably but not yet.

A 5 or 6 game winning streak and the perspective changes slightly. If that doesn't happen soon sure, give Marte all the ABs he can handle

The 134 ABs they've wasted on him have not helped.

[dreghorntwo]

'This is a very one dimensional assessment of India.'

It's not though, he has no position, where do you see him next season?

[Kingspoint]

To India's credit, he's improved his Defense a lot at 2B this season. His range isn't there, and probably never will be. But, what he gets to he's done well with. He's also much better at using his charts to be at the right spot based on situation, hitter, pitcher and count. Cerebrally, he's been much better. I know his Defensive WAR is a negative...don't remember what it is, but it's OK.

I personally want both India AND Espinal here next season. I want Espinal for the same reason I want Fairchild. They can start if needed, but as Utility players, they are outstanding. India is not a Utility player, but if we learned anything this season, it's to not assume health. Since we are going for it the next eight seasons, as long as EDLC is on the team and we have very good Starting Pitching, having guys on the bench like Espinal and Fairchild are critical. Known commodities, such as India's OBP and high-pitch count are also solid pieces to winning teams. 500 PA's from India is a good thing. 250 PA's from Fairchild and Espinal is a good thing, while it's likely Espinal and Fairchild contribute more Defensively than they will Offensively, but they can both contribute Offensively, too. Fairchild is the 2nd best situational hitter on the team after Friedl. Espinal is the best contact hitter on the team, which is a great skill to have as it puts pressure on the defense and keeps rallies going.

[WrongVerb]

Espinal, Fraley, and India seems like a solid bench for next season.

[LeatherPants]

Espinal, Fraley, and India seems like a solid bench for next season.

A $15 million bench for three guys would indeed be a good one, but how likely is that?

[Kc61]

Bench players are usually limited, but you want to “cover the waterfront” as much as possible.

Neither Fairchild nor Espinal hits RHP. Do you want both?

Fraley doesn’t play CF and has a large platoon split. Is he your main outfield backup?

India is quite limited defensively, does he provide enough defensive backup?

I’m not disqualifying anyone, probably some of these guys would work, but a bench has to compliment the starting team and provide solid defensive coverage. For me, it’s too soon to know who will fit the team best next season.

[mth123]

Bench players are usually limited, but you want to “cover the waterfront” as much as possible.

Neither Fairchild nor Espinal hits RHP. Do you want both?

Fraley doesn’t play CF and has a large platoon split. Is he your main outfield backup?

India is quite limited defensively, does he provide enough defensive backup?

I’m not disqualifying anyone, probably some of these guys would work, but a bench has to compliment the starting team and provide solid defensive coverage. For me, it’s too soon to know who will fit the team best next season.

First you need to get a solid staring team. Not 50% of one with 4 or 5 black holes in the line-up like they have now. Resources need to go there first. A perfect bench is a luxury and until the starting team is in place, we don't really know how the bench needs to be structured to compliment it.

[Kc61]

First you need to get a solid staring team. Not 50% of one with 4 or 5 black holes in the line-up like they have now. Resources need to go there first. A perfect bench is a luxury and until the starting team is in place, we don't really know how the bench needs to be structured to compliment it.

Agree that it’s too soon to plan a bench. But a sound bench is not a luxury item. It’s a necessity. And it’s inconceivable that Reds can’t afford a sound group of bench players who fit the team’s needs.

[Mitri]

David Bell doesn't really have bench players. He's going to use all 26 guys.

And with so many young, affordable players on this team, I don't see a problem with having 3 "bench" players making $5MM each. Not that big of a deal.

That said, I don't see the need to keep both India/Espinal on next year's team, unless something bigger happens like Candy/CES/Steer being dealt.

[mth123]

Agree that it’s too soon to plan a bench. But a sound bench is not a luxury item. It’s a necessity. And it’s inconceivable that Reds can’t afford a sound group of bench players who fit the team’s needs.

It depends how high they are willing to go on the payroll, but they need about $50 Million to fill more important issues first like Clean-up hitter, starting pitcher and late inning reliever. Some of that will come from money exiting like Montas, Martinez, Farmer, Sims, Wilson and buyouts for Votto and Moose that won't repeat, but unless the payroll goes up, it won't be enough. They are going to need to shave more money somehow. The most obvious way is to find a taker for Candy and a taker for Pagan, but I think that is unlikely. I just wouldn't be guaranteeing any money to secondary roles that a cheap minor leaguer could fill. That would include Espinal, Maile and maybe Fraley and Fairchild.

The other way would be to deal minor leaguers for more cost controlled proven producers. Not sure they have the minor leaguers to deal with all the disappointing seasons and injuries in the system (Petty, Phillips, Williamson, Arroyo, Ashcraft, Floyd, Richardson, CES, Benson...)

[Mitri]

It depends how high they are willing to go on the payroll, but they need about $50 Million to fill more important issues first like Clean-up hitter, starting pitcher and late inning reliever. Some of that will come from money exiting like Montas, Martinez, Farmer, Sims, Wilson and buyouts for Votto and Moose that won't repeat, but unless the payroll goes up, it won't be enough. They are going to need to shave more money somehow. The most obvious way is to find a taker for Candy and a taker for Pagan, but I think that is unlikely. I just wouldn't be guaranteeing any money to secondary roles that a cheap minor leaguer could fill. That would include Espinal, Maile and maybe Fraley and Fairchild.

The other way would be to deal minor leaguers for more cost controlled proven producers. Not sure they have the minor leaguers to deal with all the disappointing seasons and injuries in the system (Petty, Phillips, Williamson, Arroyo, Ashcraft, Floyd, Richardson ...)

I like your payroll suggestion in that previous post, but I just don't see them spending $40MM on an outfielder and SP. It's just not happenening. I think we'll likely see at least one trade that will bring in a more cost-controlled outfielder. Which will leave a bit more to spend on role/bench players.

They should have some money to play around with, and it will be fascinating to see how they spend it.

[CaiGuy]

The Reds have comically little committed payroll next year, even after the "splurge" over the last offseason.

Guaranteed: $28,233,333

Options that probably get exercised: $11,500,000 (Pagan and Suter)

Arb 3: (None that should be kept)

Arb 2: Espinal, TySteve, Fraley (Who I'd flip to make room for a true starter)

Arb 1: Lodolo, Diaz, Moll, Ashcraft

(I'd non-tender Antone and France)

It's sad that they have us trained that keeping a bench bat for $5M would keep them from adding elsewhere, but I suppose it's their MO to just that.

That said, Espinal is a fungiable peice. I don't mind if they keep him, but they have like 6+ higher prio slots to upgrade before his is really worth working about (starting LF, starting RF, 1 Starting Pitcher, Second Catcher, Setup Guy, ~2 Middle Relievers)

[Sea Ray]

It depends how high they are willing to go on the payroll, but they need about $50 Million to fill more important issues first like Clean-up hitter, starting pitcher and late inning reliever. Some of that will come from money exiting like Montas, Martinez, Farmer, Sims, Wilson and buyouts for Votto and Moose that won't repeat, but unless the payroll goes up, it won't be enough. They are going to need to shave more money somehow. The most obvious way is to find a taker for Candy and a taker for Pagan, but I think that is unlikely. I just wouldn't be guaranteeing any money to secondary roles that a cheap minor leaguer could fill. That would include Espinal, Maile and maybe Fraley and Fairchild.

The other way would be to deal minor leaguers for more cost controlled proven producers. Not sure they have the minor leaguers to deal with all the disappointing seasons and injuries in the system (Petty, Phillips, Williamson, Arroyo, Ashcraft, Floyd, Richardson, CES, Benson...)

If they can find a bona fide cleanup hitter, great but I think they'll be relegated to hope that CES is that guy. Baseball isn't like Amazon where you can find what you need if you're willing to spend the money. That said, I think you've identified their top priority. A good hitter in the middle of this lineup would do wonders for their scoring which has arguably been their biggest weakness this year