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Thread: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

  1. #151
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    As for national championships, give me talent all day long.

    Of the four Wildcat championships I've been alive for, Kentucky had the most talent in the nation in three of them: 1978, 1996, and 2012.


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  3. #152
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    As for national championships, give me talent all day long.

    Of the four Wildcat championships I've been alive for, Kentucky had the most talent in the nation in three of them: 1978, 1996, and 2012.
    Not going to disagree with you on talent as it is important but so is experience and senior leadership. Those three teams had that.

    Talent alone can only get you so far. The one in done won out in 2012 because that team had a transcendent talent in Anthony Davis but also senior leadership in Darius Miller.

    In the 15 years Cal was at Kentucky he won ONE championship with all of that talent. Why do you think that is? The answer is Cal is an excellent recruiter and motivator but his in game coaching miscues have been well documented.

    Id rather see teams built the way Dan Hurley is building them. 1-2 one and dones, a bunch of 3-4 star players who fit your system who are going to be 3-4 year players, and whatever else is needed is filled through the transfer portal.



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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  5. #153
    Kentuckian At Heart WVRed's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Jaxson Robinson has withdrawn from the NBA Draft and commits to Kentucky.

    Pope has his star player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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  7. #154
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    In the 15 years Cal was at Kentucky he won ONE championship with all of that talent. Why do you think that is?
    Because winning national championships is inherently difficult.

    UK got screwed against Wisconsin in the Final Four and against UNC in an Elite 8 game. Both of those could have gone-- perhaps should have gone-- Kentucky's way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Jaxson Robinson has withdrawn from the NBA Draft and commits to Kentucky.

    Pope has his star player.
    14 ppg isn't a star player, man. He's the 6th Man of the Year in the Big XII, not an All-American.

  8. #155
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Because winning national championships is inherently difficult.

    UK got screwed against Wisconsin in the Final Four and against UNC in an Elite 8 game. Both of those could have gone-- perhaps should have gone-- Kentucky's way.

    - - - Updated - - -

    14 ppg isn't a star player, man. He's the 6th Man of the Year in the Big XII, not an All-American.
    And in that time frame:

    Duke won two championships (in years where Kentucky had a legitimate shot)

    UConn won FOUR with three different coaches.

    Look at the players who were on those teams and you can literally make the argument that Calipari has done less with the most amount of talent.

    For the record I'm not bashing Cal. It's nothing personal. When he retires he will eventually have his name in the rafters at Rupp and he should. The 2010 decade he brought Kentucky back to national prominence and made Kentucky the school everyone wanted to come to.

    His biggest fault was not listening to Joe B Halls advice and staying longer than those ten years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  9. #156
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    And in that time frame:

    Duke won two championships (in years where Kentucky had a legitimate shot)

    UConn won FOUR with three different coaches.
    Duke's had a monstrous amount of talent.

    UConn has as well.

    Talent generally wins championships.

    Not always. But most of the time.

    If you want to win championships, you're going to almost always need talent. If given the choice between Calipari with monstrous talent and Pope with mid-major talent, I'm picking Calipari 10 times out of 10. I suspect most of the rest of you would not. Which, to me, is really, really weird. (Maybe championships aren't as important as rooting for two-, three-, and four-year players for many on this board?)
    Last edited by Bourgeois Zee; 05-30-2024 at 09:24 PM.

  10. #157
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Duke's had a monstrous amount of talent.

    UConn has as well.

    Talent generally wins championships.

    Not always. But most of the time.

    If you want to win championships, you're going to almost always need talent. If given the choice between Calipari with monstrous talent and Pope with mid-major talent, I'm picking Calipari 10 times out of 10. I suspect most of the rest of you would not. Which, to me, is really, really weird. (Maybe championships aren't as important as rooting for two-, three-, and four-year players for many on this board?)
    Duke and UConn also blended the talent with players who stayed. It wasn't load up on the top players from 247/On3 and have to replenish every year.

    Duke also had a legend in coaching and UConn had two (not counting Ollie).

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  11. #158
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Duke and UConn also blended the talent with players who stayed. It wasn't load up on the top players from 247/On3 and have to replenish every year.

    Duke also had a legend in coaching and UConn had two (not counting Ollie).
    Duke's 2015 team had one senior. They started three freshmen. To say that team had veterans is stretching it. UConn's 2011 team had Kemba Walker as a junior, three freshmen, and a sophomore starting. Again, the "veteran" leadership is basically nil. Last year's UK team had Reeves and Mitchell as starters; it was far more experienced than either of those squads. The season before, Calipari had five seniors. The year before that, three juniors and a senior.

    The insistence that Calipari only coaches freshmen or has freshmen-dominated rosters hasn't been correct since 2018.

    As to roster construction, I don't care who plays and what year they are-- as long as that roster is talented. I wish Kentucky had Arkansas' roster, as I think it's more talented-- even if Calipari was coach.

  12. #159
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bourgeois Zee View Post
    Duke's 2015 team had one senior. They started three freshmen. To say that team had veterans is stretching it. UConn's 2011 team had Kemba Walker as a junior, three freshmen, and a sophomore starting. Again, the "veteran" leadership is basically nil. Last year's UK team had Reeves and Mitchell as starters; it was far more experienced than either of those squads. The season before, Calipari had five seniors. The year before that, three juniors and a senior.

    The insistence that Calipari only coaches freshmen or has freshmen-dominated rosters hasn't been correct since 2018.

    As to roster construction, I don't care who plays and what year they are-- as long as that roster is talented. I wish Kentucky had Arkansas' roster, as I think it's more talented-- even if Calipari was coach.
    They had Amile Jefferson and one of the Plumlees who were juniors.

    For the record, had Kentucky not tried to go stall ball at the end and lost to Wisconsin they would have waxed the floor with that Duke team. That Duke team had the benefit of playing a Michigan State team that Coach K traditionally owned (except for the Zion year) and Kentucky losing to Wisconsin.

    Calhoun rode Kemba to the title. Same with Ollie and Napier three years later but he was pretty much their Tubby Smith.

    As for Kentucky vs Arkansas in terms of talent, I hope Pope zones the crap out of that Arkansas team because there isn't anyone who scares me hitting a three. Zone always seems to be an Achilles heel for a Calipari coached team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  13. #160
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Lunardi has a way too early bracketolgy out with Kentucky as a 7 seed.

    By comparison, Arkansas is a 5 seed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

  14. #161
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    Lunardi has a way too early bracketolgy out with Kentucky as a 7 seed.

    By comparison, Arkansas is a 5 seed.

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    Okay it is too early but fun for debate..
    As a Kentucky fan, I honestly see this team with the addition of Robinson as a team that could be in the 3-4 seed range. In other words.... maybe ranking 12 to 16 somewhere. I feel if Pope has them all on the same page, he has put a nice balanced team together and the way college basketball has become, many coaches will face the starting over though not to the degree Pope has in going from zero to a full roster.
    A nice blend of inside/outside, rim protection/rebounding etc.
    Hopefully it will be an entertaining first Pope season.

  15. #162
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    Re: UK Basketball 2024-2025: Can It Get Any Worse?

    Interesting development:

    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...onn-dan-hurley

    Could try to get McNeely again. Or Mahaney or Karaban.

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    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.


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