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Thread: Could Bell be fired this season?

  1. #331
    Eight bosses? Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    David Bell’s Reds teams have had a winning record 3 out of 5 seasons.
    Is that your barometer for success?

    If so, what is the MLB statistic for participation awards, my dial-up just crashed...
    I believe there is a special place in hell for people that buy entities that others "root for" and treat it like any other regular business from a profit/loss standpoint.

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  4. #332
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    David Bellís Reds teams have had a winning record 3 out of 5 seasons.
    And a 4th season (2019) marked a significant turn for the better in the team's performance. His overall body of work with the team has been solid, and he probably got robbed of a 90+ win season in 2020.

    I remain agnostic on whether the Reds should fire Bell (along with anything else the Reds may do), but his track record should be an argument for keeping him.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

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  6. #333
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I donít think the roster is terrible, I think itís injured as hell and some guys are playing much worse than youíd expect. And they should be a game or so around .500 by their pythag.
    It's godawful and paper thin. And stacked with guys with lengthy injury histories. A few of us literally saw this: We were told no no no no.
    ďAnd when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.Ē Jamie Galbraith

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  8. #334
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    What's Phil going to tell us about all this? Maybe remind us that there aren't other options locally?
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

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  10. #335
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    So do people think that the players aren't out there trying to do their best? I think they all are. Even the ones I'm not a fan of. If you believe they are doing their best, what else do you want Bell to ask them to do? All you can ask is that guys do the best they can. If that's not good enough, time for some better players or a better mix of players who can be matched-up properly. I think the roster is messed up. A lot of that is due to injuries and some of it is due to a poor mix in the roster design. IMO, Bell is taking that cast of misfits and getting them to play. If we want better results, we need better players who properly fit their roles.

    I squarely think that a lot of this is on Krall and firing Bell is just scapegoating. If you want accountability, IMO, Krall is the target. Firing Bell is letting Krall off the hook. That's the exact opposite of accountability.
    Agreed.. Someone like CES or Benson.. They know their career is hanging on by a thread. The difference between a good or bad year in 2024 could be millions of dollars to them. They are definitely all doing their best. It's not a motivational problem. Maybe they could benefit from instruction, maybe not.. There's some athletes that improve with the right coach, some have simply hit their ceiling and can't improve at all.. But yea, everyone is trying their best to get a hit when they come up.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  12. #336
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I actually agree with almost all of this. I just don't think most of those things are David Bell's decisions. I think the organization wants "versatile mix and match" players and has forced fed them onto the roster. It's one of my biggest issues with this roster design that I keep talking about. I think the organization wants to ride the guys they see as key, and I believe Steer is one of them. I think the organization has deemed Diaz the closer and that's the guy that they've provided Bell to use in that role. I just don't think he has the discretion to do the things you are saying here. .
    IMO, Krall collected a bunch of promising prospects, got too attached to them.
    Krall believed in India so much, he gave India a 2 year contract, instead of trading him (again, too attached)
    Krall was too attached to every prospect in the system make a significant move last year at the deadline.

    So they open the season with an unbalanced roster.. Rather than trading surpluses to fill needs, they do the normal Reds mode.. Let's move some infielders to OF. Let's carry a bunch of DHs. etc, etc. Krall blows his significant offseason budget on even more role players, instead of getting one star. Team has a ton of injuries, and the only move was Espanol.

    Point is, this emphasis on "versatility" is just a spin, there is no design. It's just marketing the team to the fans. Imagine how bad the OF defense would be on the days where both Steer and India were in the OF. Because if everyone was healthy, we'd have days where they were both in the OF.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  14. #337
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Agreed.. Someone like CES or Benson.. They know their career is hanging on by a thread. .
    Man, CES has less than 400 career plate appearances, and yeah he's had a bad 100 PA's this year, but it's way too early to say this about him

  15. #338
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Man, CES has less than 400 career plate appearances, and yeah he's had a bad 100 PA's this year, but it's way too early to say this about him
    Too clarify.. the point is, the difference between him OPSing 600 and 900 this year is likely millions of dollars.
    He knows this and is motivated by it.
    I should have used better words.. He's career is not literally hanging by a thread. He'll likely get chances through at least his second year of arb (maybe later).
    Look at how many chances Senzel got.. He's still getting them.
    Still, this year and next year are important years for CES.. he doesn't need someone reminding him of that.
    That was my point.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  17. #339
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    IMO, Krall collected a bunch of promising prospects, got too attached to them.
    Krall believed in India so much, he gave India a 2 year contract, instead of trading him (again, too attached)
    Krall was too attached to every prospect in the system make a significant move last year at the deadline.

    So they open the season with an unbalanced roster.. Rather than trading surpluses to fill needs, they do the normal Reds mode.. Let's move some infielders to OF. Let's carry a bunch of DHs. etc, etc. Krall blows his significant offseason budget on even more role players, instead of getting one star. Team has a ton of injuries, and the only move was Espanol.

    Point is, this emphasis on "versatility" is just a spin, there is no design. It's just marketing the team to the fans. Imagine how bad the OF defense would be on the days where both Steer and India were in the OF. Because if everyone was healthy, we'd have days where they were both in the OF.

    I agree with some of the criticism of Krall. No one is perfect. I think he messed up the RF situation, India's continued roster presence and that the bullpen remake didn't excite me.

    I disagree about being too attached to prospects. They had 5-6 young arms come up at the same time and 4-5 position guys at the same time. This year was all about seeing what that core turned into good, bad or indifferent. Krall worked the margins of the roster and we came into this year thinking guys like India and Stewie were going to be the 12th and 13th man. I can live with the approach. The results have been awful but not all of that is due to things in Krall's control.

    If we had no injuries this year this team could still suck but we'll never know. The odds are that all of those kids wouldn't fail. They would have their ups and downs but just like the starters have developed, I think in time the results will be fine to very good. That is almost as frustrating as the losing to me, a lost year of development at the MLB level for CES, Marte, Friedl, and most especially McLain.

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  19. #340
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Is that your barometer for success?

    If so, what is the MLB statistic for participation awards, my dial-up just crashed...
    That was my thought as well. My God, have we sunk to the point of saying everything's hunky dory because the coach won over 81 games 3 seasons out of 5? Bell is a very mediocre manager with seemingly very little ability get a team up for games.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

  20. #341
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    I agree with some of the criticism of Krall. No one is perfect. I think he messed up the RF situation, India's continued roster presence and that the bullpen remake didn't excite me.

    I disagree about being too attached to prospects. They had 5-6 young arms come up at the same time and 4-5 position guys at the same time. This year was all about seeing what that core turned into good, bad or indifferent. Krall worked the margins of the roster and we came into this year thinking guys like India and Stewie were going to be the 12th and 13th man. I can live with the approach. The results have been awful but not all of that is due to things in Krall's control.

    If we had no injuries this year this team could still suck but we'll never know. The odds are that all of those kids wouldn't fail. They would have their ups and downs but just like the starters have developed, I think in time the results will be fine to very good. That is almost as frustrating as the losing to me, a lost year of development at the MLB level for CES, Marte, Friedl, and most especially McLain.
    Why is it that we're always talking about injuries? If that guy gotten hurt, bla bla bla. Other teams just plug in another guy who carries without missing a beat. But our boat is depending on a guy in the lower deck, on his hands and knees plugging holes with silly putty.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

  21. #342
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFashionedRed View Post
    Why is it that we're always talking about injuries? If that guy gotten hurt, bla bla bla. Other teams just plug in another guy who carries without missing a beat. But our boat is depending on a guy in the lower deck, on his hands and knees plugging holes with silly putty.
    Sorry for the delay, I didn't see this.

    I think we have to be realistic about the rebuilding (yet again) status of the franchise. We haven't been successfully building up the farm for long enough to withstand the severity of the injuries this year.

    The Reds had what, 8-9 guys all come up together in the past couple of years? There is a bunch of intriguing talent down in A ball and below but AA and AAA are pretty barren as one would expect after that kind of graduation. Some teams might be able to keep the high minors stacked in that scenario but very few.

    I understand the frustration with what seems a 40+ year rebuild but the reality is we are in pretty good shape for the shape we're in and conflating the issues of past sins with the current regime is, in essence, letting it beat you twice. The injuries this year took out 4 of our everyday guys and forced a couple of other platoon types into daily service against the 3rd hardest schedule in MLB. I don't know many organizations outside of say Baltimore that could handle that kind of attrition.

  22. #343
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D View Post
    Sorry for the delay, I didn't see this.

    I think we have to be realistic about the rebuilding (yet again) status of the franchise. We haven't been successfully building up the farm for long enough to withstand the severity of the injuries this year.

    The Reds had what, 8-9 guys all come up together in the past couple of years? There is a bunch of intriguing talent down in A ball and below but AA and AAA are pretty barren as one would expect after that kind of graduation. Some teams might be able to keep the high minors stacked in that scenario but very few.

    I understand the frustration with what seems a 40+ year rebuild but the reality is we are in pretty good shape for the shape we're in and conflating the issues of past sins with the current regime is, in essence, letting it beat you twice. The injuries this year took out 4 of our everyday guys and forced a couple of other platoon types into daily service against the 3rd hardest schedule in MLB. I don't know many organizations outside of say Baltimore that could handle that kind of attrition.
    It's okay, no worries. I see that we're ten games out, and naive me somehow feels that we're not really out of this thing just yet. We're not looking terrible in the wild card race considering how close it is between a bunch of teams 2-3 games out of the wildcard. I wish we did have the depth so that Elly could be sent down to either work on his head, or tweak something. Tremendous speed and power, gets after it in the field. The talent is there.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

  23. #344
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFashionedRed View Post
    I wish we did have the depth so that Elly could be sent down to either work on his head, or tweak something. Tremendous speed and power, gets after it in the field. The talent is there.
    The guy has slumped for two weeks and his overall numbers are still above average and you want to send him down?

    SMH.

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  25. #345
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    Re: Could Bell be fired this season?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldFashionedRed View Post
    That was my thought as well. My God, have we sunk to the point of saying everything's hunky dory because the coach won over 81 games 3 seasons out of 5? Bell is a very mediocre manager with seemingly very little ability get a team up for games.
    So Bell should channel his inner Knute Rockne?

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