Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 20 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 288

Thread: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

  1. #1
    Baseball means warmth Joeyjection19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Athens>LA>CLE>BOS
    Posts
    456

    It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    In the old RedsZone tradition, it's time to bring up India. Obviously, he's not the biggest problem on the team as currently designed. A team carrying Ford and Hurtubise has an undeniable depth problem. That said, every thread seems to eventually involves the Reds' negative-WAR second baseman. Any trade value at this point is negligible with the remainder of this year's salary and $5M due in 2025. Any solution likely needs to be in-house.

    Of all the disappointments this year, India may be the biggest. Going into the offseason, Jonathan's India position with this team was uncertain. McLain, ELDC, and Marte's growth made his position less than certain. India's 2022 and 2023 seasons left something to be desired and it appeared like his bat wasn't strong enough to play at 1B or LF. With Marte's suspension and McLain's injury, India was thrust again into the starting lineup. To date, though, a 74 OPS+ with negative defensive value up the middle isn't getting it done.

    We've used these threads before for other players who have turned things around. It's still early in the season. It's time.

  2. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (05-23-2024),RedTeamGo! (05-23-2024)


  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #2
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    2,907

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    The seemingly unnecessary 2-year contract instead of just going to arbitration seems more questionable now. It gives cost certainty but eliminates the option of non-tendering him.

    I reslly thought his 2022 year was just a sophomore slump due to injuries, but it seems to be the rule not the exception

  5. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (05-23-2024),REDREAD (05-23-2024),Tom Servo (05-23-2024)

  6. #3
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    35,262

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    I was nearly ready to make this thread myself. Obviously he can get his PAs in this year with the injuries and all but if it continues on like this it means he has to be out of a starting job next season. 2021 wasn't forever ago, but little in the 1000+ PAs since have justified continued time as a regular, especially when his below average defense is factored in.

    I'd have traded him at last year's deadline for a pitcher and not looked back.
    ďI donít care,Ē Votto said of passing his friend and former teammate. ďHeís in the past. Bye-bye, Jay.Ē

  7. Likes:

    BlackPete Ibold (05-24-2024),JCM11 (05-23-2024),Joeyjection19 (05-23-2024),malcontent (05-24-2024),Red Raindog (05-24-2024),REDREAD (05-23-2024),Revering4Blue (05-24-2024)

  8. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Posts
    36,561

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Based on the eye test - watching India hit - Iíd tell him to swing the bat. It looks like heís up there for deep counts and walks.

    I would encourage India to swing early in the count more often. A few solid hits might turn him around.

    When a hitterís power seems drained, you worry if heís healthy. But assuming he is, time to swing away a bit more. Results canít get much worse.

  9. Likes:

    Patrick Bateman (05-24-2024),REDREAD (05-23-2024)

  10. #5
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    6,680

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    IMO there's no way he's this bad at the plate, and I think it's his approach that's killing him.

    It's as if he thinks it's his job to see as many pitches as possible and go deep in the count, so he takes two strikes and tries to work a walk.

    Bell and the hitting coach should be all over that, but...



    You beat me to it, Kc61.
    Last edited by malcontent; 05-23-2024 at 09:46 PM.
    Everything is perfect, but there is a lot of room for improvement. --- Shunryu Suzuki-roshi

  11. Likes:

    Kc61 (05-23-2024),REDREAD (05-23-2024),RedsFanInMS (05-24-2024)

  12. #6
    Member redsfan9988's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    4,833

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...-r-hitting-mlb

    His xOBA is a respectable .327. He has an excellent eye, but seems to have trouble squaring the ball. Reality is, he’s a part time guy. He’s a solid bench bat. He’s a defensive liability, but should be able to cover 2B, 3B, 1B, or LF when necessary. 200-300 PA’s per year. That’s his schtick.

    He was amazing in 2021. He had just enough athleticism to make his “good eye and hustle” profile stand up. Now, through aging and injury, he’s lost that athleticism. He’s slow, awkward, bad on the bases, and bad in the field. Not an everyday player. Good clubhouse guy who should be able to maintain a playable OBP.

    In short…. He’s slightly better than Kevin Newman.

    Spencer Steer is the same guy, but we’re not ready for that conversation.

  13. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (05-23-2024),RedsFanInMS (05-24-2024)

  14. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Posts
    4,606

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    We were talking about him last year when he still had some value, but now it's too late and they owe him 5 million next season. Krall is in over his head.

  15. Likes:

    REDREAD (05-23-2024),RedsFanInMS (05-24-2024),TeamSelig (05-25-2024)

  16. #8
    Member LiferJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    4,225

    It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    IMO there's no way he's this bad at the plate, and I think it's his approach that's killing him.

    It's as if he thinks it's his job to see as many pitches as possible and go deep in the count, so he takes two strikes and tries to work a walk.

    Bell and the hitting coach should be all over that, but...



    You beat me to it, Kc61.
    I donít think the WHOLE team is this bad either, hitting the ball. Maybe itís an organizational philosophy

    Several in the coaching department need to go.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Life is what happens when you're making other plans... John Lennon

  17. Likes:

    malcontent (05-23-2024)

  18. #9
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    57,746

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    He's gotten really good at hitting ground balls

  19. Likes:

    757690 (05-23-2024),pahster (05-24-2024),Red Raindog (05-24-2024),Tom Servo (05-24-2024)

  20. #10
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Venice
    Posts
    34,338

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He's gotten really good at hitting ground balls
    .285 SLG. That's insanely low.

    Last year, he hit almost as many ground balls as flyballs. 0.99 GB/FB rate. 38.9 GB rate, 39.5 FB rate.

    This year, he's hitting almost twice as many ground balls as flyballs. 1.87 GB/FB rate. 49.2 GB rate, 26.3 FB rate.

    Also, his flyballs are staying in the yard almost twice as often. Last year, 12.2 HR/FB rate. This year, 6.5 HR/FB rate.

    I think the last stat is partly due to something happening league wide. There is about a 25% decrease in HR/FB league wide. But that first stat is the most telling, and all on India.

    He needs to change the launch angle, hit more flyballs, and hit for more power.
    Hoping to change my username to 75769024

  21. Likes:

    Powder River (05-24-2024)

  22. #11
    Member LiferJim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Southwest Ohio
    Posts
    4,225

    It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    .285 SLG. That's insanely low.

    Last year, he hit almost as many ground balls as flyballs. 0.99 GB/FB rate. 38.9 GB rate, 39.5 FB rate.

    This year, he's hitting almost twice as many ground balls as flyballs. 1.87 GB/FB rate. 49.2 GB rate, 26.3 FB rate.

    Also, his flyballs are staying in the yard almost twice as often. Last year, 12.2 HR/FB rate. This year, 6.5 HR/FB rate.

    I think the last stat is partly due to something happening league wide. There is about a 25% decrease in HR/FB league wide. But that first stat is the most telling, and all on India.

    He needs to change the launch angle, hit more flyballs, and hit for more power.
    I would also blame the hitting coach and manager, for not forcing him to change his approach or sit him down for a game or two to think about it. Thatís part of enforcing accountability, that some of us have spoke up about.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by LiferJim; 05-23-2024 at 10:58 PM.
    Life is what happens when you're making other plans... John Lennon

  23. #12
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    ohio
    Posts
    29,495

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by UKFlounder View Post
    The seemingly unnecessary 2-year contract instead of just going to arbitration seems more questionable now. It gives cost certainty but eliminates the option of non-tendering him.
    Yes, it was a dumb decision, almost no upside to it. You don't give a player with a chronic injury, coming off 2 bad seasons, a deal like that.

    I did some research, here's what came up.. If true, Krall is truly an idiot. India was asking for 4 million, so they give him a 2 year deal and 3.8 million this year? Why not just give in and give him the 4 million he submitted as his arb number. They gave him an extra year to save 200k this year??? Yea, I know, Krall thought he would bounce back and be a bargain at 5 million next year.. which was also reckless.

    Krall's offseason will likely haunt us this winter too. It would be hard to blame Bob C if he decided that based on last winter, the Reds should not add any more payroll in 2026.


    Jon India arbitration numbers 2024
    According to the search results, Jon India, the second baseman for the Cincinnati Reds, had a salary arbitration dispute with the team in 2024. Here are the relevant details:

    Initially, India filed for a salary of $4 million, while the Reds offered $3.2 million.
    The two sides failed to reach an agreement, and India was set to go to a salary arbitration hearing.
    However, the Reds and India eventually agreed to a two-year contract, avoiding arbitration.
    The contract is worth $8.8 million, with India earning $3.8 million in 2024 and $5 million in 2025.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  24. Likes:

    malcontent (05-24-2024)

  25. #13
    Member redsfan9988's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    4,833

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    I think there’s plenty of value in what India can do. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he’s still hanging around the league in 2030 with 15+ career WAR.

    There’s something to be said about a quality RH bench bat. He can play against lefties and be a nice insurance policy if an established veteran gets hurt or if a young prospect struggles.

    The main problem with India is that the Reds are asking him to be a full time 700 PA regular. No! He’s not that. It’s like if the Reds decided to make Buck Farmer a SP and everyone got pissed off at him because he can’t start. India can be a dude if you deploy him as he’s meant to be deployed.

  26. Likes:

    757690 (05-23-2024),Powder River (05-24-2024),Tom Servo (05-24-2024)

  27. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Ft. Lauderdale, FL
    Posts
    332

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    He's not good. At least when he is required to carry a load. RH off the bench - play a couple of days a week. Be a rah-rah guy. But an every day player - nope.

  28. #15
    Winning is fun. RiverRat13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    2,033

    Re: It's time to talk about Jonathan India

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    He's gotten really good at hitting ground balls
    Launch angle:

    2021 - 13.8
    2022 - 14.5
    2023 - 15.3
    2024 - 8.0

    I don't know if he made a conscious decision to try to slap at the ball more or if it's a pitch recognition problem, but either way, beating the ball into the ground isn't going to lead to good results.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | Gallen5862 | Plus Plus | Powel Crosley | RedlegJake | The Operator