2024 Reds Injury Updates part 2

[RED VAN HOT]

Shut down Greene and Abbott.

I don’t understand why Reds are using guys just coming back from arm injury or discomfort in these season ending games after Reds are out of the playoff race.

Would seem like an awfully big risk to accomplish very little. Williamson, Greene, Abbott all are important for 2025.

Don’t get it, they usually are a very cautious outfit, but whatever.

I had the same reaction. I wonder if it is not simply a case of being snake bit by injuries this season.

[RED VAN HOT]

I think the injuries are related but not in the way where more rest would have helped. Many times shoulder issues or forearm issues are a precursor to the real injury which is the elbow. The Reds made adjustments to Williamson's mechanics last year on the fly and it allowed him to be an effective big-league pitcher who could throw strikes when he wasn't even an effective AAA pitcher prior to that. It was a significant adjustment. After that, he made about 20 or so big league starts in 2023. IMO, the effect of his new motion was gradually building up wear and tear on his arm that showed a symptom with his Spring Training shoulder issue. He rested, the symptom got better, but the underlying issue was never resolved. I don't think that issue would have gone away with 5 more weeks, months or years of rest. Once Williamson started pitching and accumulated some wear the real issue finally showed up and now Williamson is out. I think it would have happened in AAA had he stayed there or in Spring Training if he waited until next year.

This is just my opinion, but not only do I think it was inevitable, but if he comes back in 2026 with the same motion he was using, I think it will blow again. I think the same thing happened to Tejay Antone and I also think that Graham Ashcraft may be in the middle of the same type of journey. The Reds have done well at getting pitchers to the big leagues effectively thanks mostly to Johnson's adjustments, but the quest for spin with command is just putting too much pressure on these guys arms IMO. I don't think the Reds should skimp on adding Starting pitching. Too many pitchers who look good in the minor leagues simply aren't effective at the big-league level and many of the ones who are effective are doing so by pushing their arms way farther than they should and it's only short-term success until their arms blow up in the same way. I'm not sure what kind of adjustments they made with chase Petty and Connor Phillips, but I sure wouldn't count on them until they've stood the test of time and a half of a season in the minor leagues isn't enough.

I think you are on to something. I can't help but wonder if the emphasis on spin rate and hard sliders has resulted in more arm injuries by pitchers who try to increase their spin rates. I alluded to a connection in a previous post but no one has weighed in on it.

[SirFelixCat]

Lamenting one rehab start…if he had 4-5 know what would have happened? POP!

Whether pitching in Az or Cincy, sure seemed like it was just gonna happen. It’s terrible and frustrating but assigning blame feels misplaced. But go ahead a die on your latest hill.

And while I’m as disappointed in the FO as many, they did spend last offseason when most said they wouldn’t at all…then *****edandmoaned on what they spent on. No wins ever for this team in some of y’all’s eyes. Makes for one miserable experience for you daily and many of us who have to continually read it.

[LeatherPants]

No wins ever for this team in some of y’all’s eyes. Makes for one miserable experience for you daily and many of us who have to continually read it.

This would be more impactful if they had more than one division win since I've been alive. Reds haven't won a playoff series since my dad was in college.

What kind of wins are the Reds giving us?

[mth123]

Lamenting one rehab start…if he had 4-5 know what would have happened? POP!

Whether pitching in Az or Cincy, sure seemed like it was just gonna happen. It’s terrible and frustrating but assigning blame feels misplaced. But go ahead a die on your latest hill.

And while I’m as disappointed in the FO as many, they did spend last offseason when most said they wouldn’t at all…then *****edandmoaned on what they spent on. No wins ever for this team in some of y’all’s eyes. Makes for one miserable experience for you daily and many of us who have to continually read it.

It hasn't been consistently bad luck for the last 35 years. In that time, only the 2012 team looked capable of competing for a championship. The proof is in the results. The Reds fail in whatever approach they are taking. Whether it's trading for the game's biggest star, investing heavily in mid-range free agents or going the cheap route with untried kids, comeback hopes and scrap heap surprises, the result is always the same - a non-competitive team that calls a middle of the pack finish a good season. Until they do better, there is ample reason for skepticism and criticism.

IMO, if you aren't skeptical or critical of what this team does, you aren't paying attention.

[MoneyInTheBank]

It hasn't been consistently bad luck for the last 35 years. In that time, only the 2012 team looked capable of competing for a championship. The proof is in the results. The Reds fail in whatever approach they are taking. Whether it's trading for the game's biggest star, investing heavily in mid-range free agents or going the cheap route with untried kids, comeback hopes and scrap heap surprises, the result is always the same - a non-competitive team that calls a middle of the pack finish a good season. Until they do better, there is ample reason for skepticism and criticism.

IMO, if you aren't skeptical or critical of what this team does, you aren't paying attention.

You are 100% correct that the results of the last 25+ years have been terrible and that it is largely due to complacency/incompetence starting at the very top. With that said, it's not the criticism or skepticism, it's the notion that it must be wrong if it was the Reds making the decision.

[mth123]

You are 100% correct that the results of the last 25+ years have been terrible and that it is largely due to complacency/incompetence starting at the very top. With that said, it's not the criticism or skepticism, it's the notion that it must be wrong if it was the Reds making the decision.

Semantics. The notion that whatever they do must be wrong seems like the definition of skepticism to me.

[MoneyInTheBank]

Semantics. The notion that whatever they do must be wrong seems like the definition of skepticism to me.

That sounds like certainty to me as skepticism has an open-mindedness element to it but I think I've derailed the injury updates thread sufficiently

[Boss-Hog]

This would be more impactful if they had more than one division win since I've been alive. Reds haven't won a playoff series since my dad was in college.

What kind of wins are the Reds giving us?

Not to in any way disagree with your point, but unless you were born in 2011 or 2012, the Reds would have two division titles (2010 and 2012) during your lifetime, though without any playoff series wins, as you mentioned.

[LeatherPants]

Not to in any way disagree with your point, but unless you were born in 2011 or 2012, the Reds would have two division titles (2010 and 2012) during your lifetime, though without any playoff series wins, as you mentioned.

I was 10 in 2010 and wasn't really watching baseball then, so I guess I forgot that one. Thanks for the correction.

[mth123]

I was 10 in 2010 and wasn't really watching baseball then, so I guess I forgot that one. Thanks for the correction.

Thanks for making me feel ancient. I actually have a jacket in my entry way closet that I bought 17 years before you were born. I keep telling myself that one day I'll make it fit again. I should probably give it up.

[westofyou]

[JustaFan]

while listening to the 9.19.2005 game I was reading a 2001 fiction book where a character, a former left handed pitcher was telling of his only major league game where he pitched one third inning gave up three home runs and seven runs. He was not the father of the Reds 31 year old left-hander who will now have a story of his first and probably only major league game.

[Tuff Nut]

They were in the right place with that sign.

[WrongVerb]

Semantics. The notion that whatever they do must be wrong seems like the definition of skepticism to me.

That's cynicism, not skepticism.