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Thread: Another season of "Wait until next year...

  1. #16
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Is this really necessary every time they lose a series?
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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  4. #17
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Is this really necessary every time they lose a series?
    Or get shut down in a damn good, old fashioned pitching matchup.

    Offense is down across the league, especially dire in Cincinnati where all of the guys who play OF only are a tad below league average. I mentioned earlier this season that a Reds team that leaned on pitching with a middling offense would test some fans, especially those who never lived during the lower run scoring environments of the pre-lockout era... I still think that is true.

    As for "trades" it's just starting to be trade season and there are a mess of clubs in the exact situation as the Reds, which thins the market which is limited by the 30 teams in the game, the closer to the deadline the larger the market grows, it is the nature of the beast


    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/557...h-luis-robert/

    “Every year, there’s questions earlier and earlier about when the trade market is open,” Chicago Cubs president of baseball operations Jed Hoyer said. “I talk to teams every day — many teams every day — and the idea of making significant, big transactions in mid-June is unbelievably difficult. And, at times, it’s impossible because teams aren’t going to do that to their own fan base.”

    Another NL executive estimated that the cost of acquiring Marlins left-hander Jesús Luzardo, for example, would be doubled at the beginning of June as compared to a deal at the end of July. At this point, in mid-June, the premium would be 1.5 times the price compared to the deadline, multiple executives said. So if a team zeros in on Luzardo, then the Marlins will call other teams to drive up the price for those extra Luzardo starts.

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    Ron Madden (06-20-2024)

  6. #18
    Member Marc D's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Like everything, there is a little truth to both sides.

    Yes, it's a bit of an overreaction but we are also fans of the 3rd worst team in the NL.
    Yes, it's a tight spread of game separating 9 or 10 teams but we are the 9th/10th team and would have to win at a clip that got us past all of those others.
    Yes, offense is down across the league but the Reds have the 5th lowest wRC+ of the 30 teams that are experiencing this. They are more challenged than almost anyone in this challenging environment.

    Marte is close to being back. McLain and CES are likely done for the year.
    India and Stephenson are having a resurgence. Fraley& Benson are face planting.
    Rotation looks great. Back end of the BP is scary.
    Elly is improving his defense but it's still inconsistent. The rest of the team's defense is bad and it's consistent.

    Given all that give and take, it's hard to point to an area that improves enough to allow them to play better than .500 ball for a long stretch. If you can't do that then why not at least contemplate selling into a sellers market? It's not giving up, it's being reasonable. This team has a great core at full health. It would only take a few good moves to get them over the hump.

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  8. #19
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    The Reds tore down the team in 2021-22.. Lots of departures including starters Miley, Gray, Castillo and Mahle. Castellanos, Winker, Suarez, etc. Votto declined and then Reds let go. It takes more than a year or two to build back from that especially without big spending.

    Last year was unexpected success - but a -38 pythag, only two games over .500, and horrendous starting pitching numbers. So while exciting it really wasn’t that great.

    We are seeing the downsides of building with youth. There are years required for young players to break in. They sometimes get hurt, or slump as the league catches up to them.

    Reds are headed in the right direction. The pitching is now well within the normal range. That’s a big step. But while I picked them to have a good year, I’m not exactly shocked that they’ve had struggles.

    I don’t expect Reds to vary materially from their plan of building with youth. So this is all going to take some more time.
    Last edited by Kc61; 06-20-2024 at 10:34 AM.

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  10. #20
    Member redsfan9988's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Paul Skenes has a 1.6 bWAR in 7 starts. That’s nuts. Falter and Keller are both at 1.8 - which is borderline All-Star level. I dunno… I know it’s been bad for a decent stretch now - but in fairness, we faced excellent pitching in this series.

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    *BaseClogger* (06-21-2024),Mitri (06-20-2024),Ron Madden (06-20-2024)

  12. #21
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    This team was built around speed, up the middle defense, and 15-20 HR hitters. The best power was supposed to come from the corners. With so many players out or playing only part of the time, the players that remained tended to expand the strike zone in an effort to make up for the power shortage. It is miraculous that they are still in the wild card hunt. The pitching, both starters and bullpen has carried them.

  13. #22
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    I think a lot of teams ahead of us are susceptible to some long periods of bad play ahead of them. Still want to see what the team looks like after Marte is added.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

  14. #23
    Member Ky Fried Redleg's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Our beloved Redlegs last won a playoff series right around the same time the O.J. Simpson trial concluded. If that same amount of time passes before we win another playoff series, we'll be looking at 2053. "Wait til that year," I guess.
    “It’s the mathematical potential for a single game to last forever, in a suspended world where no clock rules the day, that aligns baseball as much with the dead as the living.”
    ---- Bill Vaughn

    "Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ---Tim Minchin("Storm")

  15. #24
    Member OldFashionedRed's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    This team was built around speed, up the middle defense, and 15-20 HR hitters. The best power was supposed to come from the corners. With so many players out or playing only part of the time, the players that remained tended to expand the strike zone in an effort to make up for the power shortage. It is miraculous that they are still in the wild card hunt. The pitching, both starters and bullpen has carried them.
    Why can't we just name players, instead of acting like the position being played dictates the offense?

    It's like fans who act like a certain league has a certain style of play, or offensive/defensive scheme. It's literally plug and play. Put better guys in there and your offense and defense will be better, lol.
    "He reminds me of me when I was that age -- the way he plays the game, I mean," Pete Rose talking about Chris Sabo

  16. #25
    Just a Fan RiverfrontRed's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Fried Redleg View Post
    Our beloved Redlegs last won a playoff series right around the same time the O.J. Simpson trial concluded. If that same amount of time passes before we win another playoff series, we'll be looking at 2053. "Wait til that year," I guess.
    So now we're doomed for the next 29 years??

  17. #26
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    On the expenses side, the Reds have the 24th-highest payroll this season, yet on the revenue side, they are currently 21st in attendance. Add revenue sharing to that picture, and ol' Phil may be achieving his goals more than we know, despite all the injuries. Do you think a savvy businessman like Phil gets hung up on the standings when the product is selling pretty well while cost containment is maintained?

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    LiferJim (06-20-2024)

  19. #27
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ky Fried Redleg View Post
    Our beloved Redlegs last won a playoff series right around the same time the O.J. Simpson trial concluded. If that same amount of time passes before we win another playoff series, we'll be looking at 2053. "Wait til that year," I guess.
    Where else you gonna go?

    Put me in coach…


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    Life is what happens when you're making other plans... John Lennon

  20. #28
    Member Kingspoint's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    REDS are at home for the next 6 games. That means a couple of Candelario HR's. Elly's hitting better. Friedl will be back. We should be able to score at least 3 runs each day and that should give us a chance to win 5 of 6 and get to 40-40 after 80 games. Then we get Marte (who has been swinging at every pitch within 6 inches of the strike zone since his first PA in Louisville and seems determined to hit the ground swinging....he won't be looking at any called-3rd-strikes, but he also won't walk...personally, I think he just hates being in Louisville and views it as part of his punishment and that he'll finally feel normal again when he puts on that REDS' uniform and gets into a game).

    Marte's adrenaline is going to be off the charts upon his return in St. Louis. That energy will help.
    "One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."

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  22. #29
    Member Ky Fried Redleg's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverfrontRed View Post
    So now we're doomed for the next 29 years??
    Just having fun with math. I like math.
    “It’s the mathematical potential for a single game to last forever, in a suspended world where no clock rules the day, that aligns baseball as much with the dead as the living.”
    ---- Bill Vaughn

    "Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ---Tim Minchin("Storm")

  23. #30
    Member Ky Fried Redleg's Avatar
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    Re: Another season of "Wait until next year...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    The Reds tore down the team in 2021-22.. Lots of departures including starters Miley, Gray, Castillo and Mahle. Castellanos, Winker, Suarez, etc. Votto declined and then Reds let go. It takes more than a year or two to build back from that especially without big spending.

    Last year was unexpected success - but a -38 pythag, only two games over .500, and horrendous starting pitching numbers. So while exciting it really wasn’t that great.

    We are seeing the downsides of building with youth. There are years required for young players to break in. They sometimes get hurt, or slump as the league catches up to them.

    Reds are headed in the right direction. The pitching is now well within the normal range. That’s a big step. But while I picked them to have a good year, I’m not exactly shocked that they’ve had struggles.

    I don’t expect Reds to vary materially from their plan of building with youth. So this is all going to take some more time.

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    Last edited by Ky Fried Redleg; 06-21-2024 at 03:55 AM.
    “It’s the mathematical potential for a single game to last forever, in a suspended world where no clock rules the day, that aligns baseball as much with the dead as the living.”
    ---- Bill Vaughn

    "Science adjusts its views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved." ---Tim Minchin("Storm")


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