Montas Traded to Brewers

[757690]

I thought Krall made sense in his comment last night about shedding relievers at the deadline. Surprised they only traded one. They do have guys coming off injury, or young guys, to fill a few relief spots.

But I didn’t buy what Krall said about Montas. He said, in essence, that he wanted the rotation spot for Nick Martinez or some AAA guys. Just don’t buy that at all. They moved Montas to save $3.35 million or whatever the precise number is.

Krall said he made the trade to add 5 years of Wiemers, and an extra year of Junis. He implied they were going to pick up Junis’ option, so there goes the $3M saved, and your theory that it was about money.

[LeatherPants]

Krall said he made the trade to add 5 years of Wiemers, and an extra year of Junis. He implied they were going to pick up Junis’ option, so there goes the $3M saved, and your theory that it was about money.

Can you provide a link to that quote about "an extra year of Junis", because I haven't seen or heard that anywhere.


Edit:

Here's Sheldon with a quote from Krall regarding the return for Montas (bold emphasis is mine)

“With Montas, being able to get a long-term and a short-term asset was extremely important. It does look like a sell on paper. But at the same time, we got two guys back that can help both this year’s club and one that can help in the future and be a very productive player.”

https://www.mlb.com/news/reds-2024-t...adline-wrap-up

[LiferJim]

In 4 starts and 21 innings in July, Frankie has given up 18 earned runs. I’m surprised we were able to get any takers and happy we moved on. His recent numbers seem like an indication he is wearing down, which some of us predicted, since he barely even pitched in 2023.

Yes he could excel with the Brewers, but I’m going to bet his numbers continue to decline this year.


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[757690]

Can you provide a link to that quote about "an extra year of Junis", because I haven't seen or heard that anywhere.

He said it in his in game interview with Sadak and Larkin. He said that they got Janis because he added production for the Reds for multiple years.

[LeatherPants]

He said it in his in game interview with Sadak and Larkin. He said that they got Janis because he added production for the Reds for multiple years.

Well I didn't listen to it, so I'll go with what you said, but in interviews with the press he only mentions him as helping this year, including this video and that quote from Sheldon.

https://x.com/Trags/status/1818429305203953882

[TRF]

No. That's not how "juicing" works.

As a minor leaguer, he got tested a lot. They have no collective bargaining agreement. Minor league players get popped when they test positive and can be suspended for refusing a test. It doesn't happen as often as it might have if testing were in place in say... 1997.

He started taking his PED when he got hurt to accelerate the healing process, got tested, and got suspended. The timeline does not fit the "narrative". He tested positive after the season ended, likely in ST or before. Not from an in-season test last year. And he never tested positive as a minor leaguer.

PED's do not instantly give you a magic ability to put bat on ball. Kid missed 80 games. He only has a total of 222 PA's as a MLB player and is only 22 years old. Perhaps 2 things might be in play here..

1. He's just starting to get into a rhythm as a hitter this year.
2. He's a rookie. Pitchers might have adjusted to him more than he's been able to adjust, as he MISSED 80 GAMES.

But sure, FCB can make stuff up to support his whatever agenda because being reactionary is fun.

Also, can we let the complaining about not getting Cease go yet? Can he hit? because SP has not really been the Reds problem this year.

[757690]

Well I didn't listen to it, so I'll go with what you said, but in interviews with the press he only mentions him as helping this year, including this video and that quote from Sheldon.

https://x.com/Trags/status/1818429305203953882

Wait, so Krall was bad at communicating? Color me surprised.

TBH, even if Krall was consistent and adamant about picking up Junis’ option, it doesn’t mean much. A lot can happen between now and the offseason.

[Kc61]

Krall said he made the trade to add 5 years of Wiemers, and an extra year of Junis. He implied they were going to pick up Junis’ option, so there goes the $3M saved, and your theory that it was about money.

On the Montas trade, Krall said a lot of things that frankly don’t make sense to me. He said he needed Montas’ rotation spot for other pitchers, which I find difficult to understand given the state of the roster in the bigs and AAA.

I believe the Montas trade was 95% about saving some money. Nothing Krall said remotely changed my view. I expect both players received to wash out. I’d be happy to be wrong, I always like contributors to Reds, but I don’t see it.

Reds got $1 million from Brewers which was reported to even out the option buy out money to Junis and Montas. Buy out money. Doesn’t sound like Reds intend to keep him. And I highly doubt they’ll exercise the $8 million option for this pitcher.

[LeatherPants]

No. That's not how "juicing" works.

As a minor leaguer, he got tested a lot. They have no collective bargaining agreement. Minor league players get popped when they test positive and can be suspended for refusing a test. It doesn't happen as often as it might have if testing were in place in say... 1997.

He started taking his PED when he got hurt to accelerate the healing process, got tested, and got suspended. The timeline does not fit the "narrative". He tested positive after the season ended, likely in ST or before. Not from an in-season test last year. And he never tested positive as a minor leaguer.

PED's do not instantly give you a magic ability to put bat on ball. Kid missed 80 games. He only has a total of 222 PA's as a MLB player and is only 22 years old. Perhaps 2 things might be in play here..

1. He's just starting to get into a rhythm as a hitter this year.
2. He's a rookie. Pitchers might have adjusted to him more than he's been able to adjust, as he MISSED 80 GAMES.

But sure, FCB can make stuff up to support his whatever agenda because being reactionary is fun.

Also, can we let the complaining about not getting Cease go yet? Can he hit? because SP has not really been the Reds problem this year.

I agree with all of this except that minor leaguers do have a collective bargaining agreement now

Just FYI

https://www.mlb.com/news/minor-leagu...ning-agreement

[Kc61]

Well I didn't listen to it, so I'll go with what you said, but in interviews with the press he only mentions him as helping this year, including this video and that quote from Sheldon.

https://x.com/Trags/status/1818429305203953882

Krall did use the phrase “for this year” when discussing Junis. He later said “for the future as well” but I think that related to Wiemers. In other words, Junis helps for this year, Wiemers for the future. That’s how I took the remarks.

And the cash sent over by the Brewers to even out buy out money also points to Junis for this year. His $8 million option seems out of the money and was likely never intended to be exercised. Just a vehicle to defer $3 million into “buy out” form and thereby defer that payment until after the season.

[TRF]

I agree with all of this except that minor leaguers do have a collective bargaining agreement now

Just FYI

https://www.mlb.com/news/minor-leagu...ning-agreement

huh. I missed that. Still stands that minor leaguers get tested, and are subject to the same penalties as MLB players.

Thanks for the info.

[Patrick Bateman]

Marte wasn’t really performing that well at AAA last year, and his hot streak to close last year was a bit smoke and mirrors. Since then, he sat out half a season, missed spring training, and probably had some regret/guilt to work through.

I had very very low expectations this year and would have him in AAA until he busts down the door.

Cease was an obvious target. I talked about him as the new Latos a year before he was traded. Connor Phillips was probably the headliner required and he can’t throw strikes anymore. Rest of the package would have included another top 100 guy like Collier and some other stuff.

Had they made that trade and bypassed Montas, plus made another deal for a bat they would probably be in a playoff spot.


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[LeatherPants]

One thing that FCB had 100% right at the time was Chris Sale > Montas, and he got a ton of pushback about that.

[UK Reds Fan]

One thing that FCB had 100% right at the time was Chris Sale > Montas, and he got a ton of pushback about that.

Yup....and the 2b prospect (Grissom) the Braves sent over is piddling for Sox.

Maybe the Sox were not interested in India...but he's been a helluva lot better than Grissom.

So Montas at $13M vs. Sale (who make 27M...but 17M was sent over to make the trade)......Reds could have easily upped that offer and got a ton better pitcher.

[757690]

Krall did use the phrase “for this year” when discussing Junis. He later said “for the future as well” but I think that related to Wiemers. In other words, Junis helps for this year, Wiemers for the future. That’s how I took the remarks.

And the cash sent over by the Brewers to even out buy out money also points to Junis for this year. His $8 million option seems out of the money and was likely never intended to be exercised. Just a vehicle to defer $3 million into “buy out” form and thereby defer that payment until after the season.

No matter what Krall said, none of us know what the Reds will do with the Junis option. Much will depend on what Junis does these final two months.

But the addition of Junis reveals that this deals was about adding talent, not money. If it was only about money, they never would have taken on Junis. If they needed to even out the money, they just would have added money to the deal, no need to complicate by adding a player and his contract.

More importantly, the Brewers are in a pennant race. They need all the good relievers they can get. Losing Junis hurts them the rest of this season and in the postseason should they make it. The fact that they added him means the Reds wanted him, needed him in the deal. The Reds felt Junis could help them at the very least in eating innings the rest of the season.