Montas Traded to Brewers

[mth123]

If they wanted to save as much money as possible, they would have not included Junis in the deal. They included Junis because that helped them get Wiemer. Without Junis, they get back a lesser player.

And again, if the Reds really wanted to save as much money as possible, they would have just put Montas on waivers. To further that point, they also would have put Wilson, Farmer and maybe even Martinez on waivers.

You keep saying this and its malarkey. The Brewers weren't taking Montas and his buyout if the Reds didn't take Junis. They sent Junis and $1 Million to the Reds specifically to make the buyouts a wash. They saved the max savings they could find. My guess is the Brewers threw in Wiemers to get the Reds to take Junis. Without Junis in the deal, the Brewers would have walked away.

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The defense thing is nice to have if Wiemers hits. The Reds could improve their defense anytime they want to for basically nothing if all they want is a good defending minor leaguer who can't hit.

[757690]

I really hate what Phil Castellini has done to the brains and soul of Reds fans. They are now convinced that every Reds move is done only to save money, no matter if the facts say otherwise.

I don’t blame Reds fans for thinking like this. I blame Phil Castellini.

[CaiGuy]

The idea is to have two way players. Not six different outfielders, each with one skill. This guy appears to lack the hit tool. You can’t be any good without the hit tool.

Wiemer has a .625 lifetime OPS. Where are our standards? Are the Reds such a weak sister that they need Brewers castoffs with a .625 OPS?

Yes, I want defense in the context of good all around players.

The term "lifetime OPS" is a bit dubious...those PA's came as a rookie. Does he have to potential to get that up around .700? I think so, he did hit some in MiLB. With his glove, that is enough from a plus CF'er.

The Reds are in the habit of running guys like Benson, Senzel, Naquin, Choo, heck even for a few games Winker out there. It's hard to find a CF who can field really well and also hit really well. I'd like them to have an actual plus fielder out there who hits enough to carry his glove, not a tweener who can't hit enough for LF or field enough for CF.

Of course, Friedl was a two-way CF last year. If he stays healthy maybe Wiemer is not needed. But he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the field, and there are signs that 2022 could be a peak year for him offensively.

[Kc61]

I really hate what Phil Castellini has done to the brains and soul of Reds fans. They are now convinced that every Reds move is done only to save money, no matter if the facts say otherwise.

I don’t blame Reds fans for thinking like this. I blame Phil Castellini.

Insulting post. My brain and soul are just fine.

I just don’t want struggling players. You apparently do.

[mth123]

I really hate what Phil Castellini has done to the brains and soul of Reds fans. They are now convinced that every Reds move is done only to save money, no matter if the facts say otherwise.

I don’t blame Reds fans for thinking like this. I blame Phil Castellini.

That's not true. They made several moves last winter to waste a lot of money. They paid top dollar for a HR prone middle reliever, paid $16 Million for a pitcher who'd missed a year and a half and was a pretty good bet to struggle in his comeback season and paid 3 years $45 Million for a pedestrian bat who can't play defense and when he does it's at positions that are fairly easy to fill if run of the mill offense is all you are looking for. I'd have much preferred them pinching pennies last winter than making the signings they did. They weren't trying to save money with those moves.

None of that changes the fact that the motivation this deadline was to unload some salary and improve the bottom line as much as possible.

[LeatherPants]

The term "lifetime OPS" is a bit dubious...those PA's came as a rookie. Does he have to potential to get that up around .700? I think so, he did hit some in MiLB. With his glove, that is enough from a plus CF'er.

The Reds are in the habit of running guys like Benson, Senzel, Naquin, Choo, heck even for a few games Winker out there. It's hard to find a CF who can field really well and also hit really well. I'd like them to have an actual plus fielder out there who hits enough to carry his glove, not a tweener who can't hit enough for LF or field enough for CF.

Of course, Friedl was a two-way CF last year. If he stays healthy maybe Wiemer is not needed. But he hasn't shown the ability to stay on the field, and there are signs that 2022 could be a peak year for him offensively.

Fairchild has actually been a perfectly acceptable backup in CF, but has the same problem that Wiemer has, he can’t hit RHP. If you’re going to have a platoon type hitter as a backup in CF get one that hits RHP since that’s where most of the at bats will come from.

[757690]

Fairchild has actually been a perfectly acceptable backup in CF,

-8 UZR/150 in CF. So no.

[757690]

Mike Siani has a 77 wRC+ this season, .617 OPS.

His defense has been above average in CF, resulting in a 1.5 fWAR in 249 PA’s. Ask Cardinal fans, they are glad the Reds made the mistake of letting him go last year.

That is what Wiener could bring to the Reds.

[mth123]

As far as Wiemers goes, there is no question he has some tools. He also has a 30 to 35 hit tool per all the scouting data I've seen. Most players are challenged a lot as rookies as pitchers try to get a read on whether they can get around on the fastball and which locations they are strong or weak at. After they've been around the league a couple of times, then pitchers start pitching these guys "tough." Its why we see so many guys come up and put up good numbers early and then tail off into oblivion. Wiemers rookie numbers certainly include some of that in them. After pitchers start pitching these guys tough, some guys adjust and regain the hitting form they showed early, but guys with a 30 to 35 hit tool usually don't. The Brewers sent Wiemers down, so he evidently didn't make those adjustments.

The Reds already have three guys who were good out of the gate in Benson, CES and Hinds. Two of them surely have shown they are suffering now that pitchers have started to pitch them "tough." The other got sent down before he was exposed. All three have 30 to 35 hit tools. The Reds didn't really need another guy like that. That hit tool is the reason I don't think the Reds should give much consideration to Benson or CES next season when they start trying to figure out how to fill their positions and it's why I don't think Wiemers will end up as anything more than a spare part.

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Mike Siani has a 77 wRC+ this season, .617 OPS.

His defense has been above average in CF, resulting in a 1.5 fWAR in 249 PA’s. Ask Cardinal fans, they are glad the Reds made the mistake of letting him go last year.

That is what Wiener could bring to the Reds.

If they had an average defender who could hit to fill that spot, Siani would be on the bench immediately.

[MoneyInTheBank]

-8 UZR/150 in CF. So no.

1 OAA, 1 DRS. That is perfectly acceptable

[Kc61]

1 OAA, 1 DRS. That is perfectly acceptable

And 1 DRS in RF, 3 DRS in RF.

[757690]

1 OAA, 1 DRS. That is perfectly acceptable

Thanks. This just reminds us how inexact these metrics are.

I will say that at the very least, I have more confidence that Wiemer will remember how many outs there are

[Kc61]

Mike Siani has a 77 wRC+ this season, .617 OPS.

His defense has been above average in CF, resulting in a 1.5 fWAR in 249 PA’s. Ask Cardinal fans, they are glad the Reds made the mistake of letting him go last year.

That is what Wiener could bring to the Reds.

Reds got rid of Mike Siani. They didn’t want a no hit, defense only outfielder. Don’t blame them.

[LeatherPants]

1 OAA, 1 DRS. That is perfectly acceptable

757690 is using his career UZR/150, so to compare apples and oranges he's 3 OAA in CF for his career. Which is perfectly acceptable for a backup.

[mth123]

I will say that at the very least, I have more confidence that Wiemer will remember how many outs there are

Now that's the first thing you've said that I might agree with.

I'm not a Fairchild fan, that doesn't make Wiemers a good choice. He at least needs to show he can hit in AAA before we start penciling him in as the starting CF or assuming he addresses the Reds OF mess.