Montas Traded to Brewers

[schroomytunes]

I actually see us spending on a true OF next year, with Montas salary off the books we could land a big ticket item. do I see it no but I think our OF would look alot better like this:

LF- Steer

CF- Friedl/ Weimer- they wanted him for a reason.

RF- Tyler Oneill (Boston) RH, has pop. would be a solid add to the lineup everyday.

Bench: Fraley, Benson.

[757690]

Freidl is fine out there. This is a small sample season because he's been injured. Those stats aren't worth the bandwidth required to look them up.

If they want Wiemers for his defense as the 5th OF who comes on for defense and pinch runs, I'm fine with him. You are on record saying the Reds should make him the starter in CF on opening day, move Freidl to a corner and clog up a position needed to add offense. I know that because you quoted and replied to my post with that outrageous assertion.

1. Those are Friedl’s career numbers.
2. The Reds are not clogged in the OF. Quite the opposite. They need OF’ers. I actually said I think Wiemers will be the Reds CF next season. I think he will earn it. I do think he should be as well.

The Cardinals are doing well with Siani who is worse offensively than Wiemer, but excelling on defense. Billy Hamilton provided league average overall production for the Reds for 5 seasons, hitting worse than Wiemer has so far. Many teams have been successful with defensive first CF who hit as well or worse than Wiemer.

The Reds don’t like set lineups so we need to stop thinking about anyone being the “CF” or “LF”. But adding Wiemer into the mix as someone who can play CF much of the time makes the Reds better. They need a defensive first CF to succeed, imo, and Wiemer fits that well.

[Kc61]

Freidl is fine out there. This is a small sample season because he's been injured. Those stats aren't worth the bandwidth required to look them up.

If they want Wiemers for his defense as the 5th OF who comes on for defense and pinch runs, I'm fine with him. You are on record saying the Reds should make him the starter in CF on opening day, move Freidl to a corner and clog up a position needed to add offense. I know that because you quoted and replied to my post with that outrageous assertion.

One of the Reds’ biggest design flaws is the reliance on five dedicated outfielders to get them through a game or a series.

The team only has room for four bench players. You really hamper your team with limited outfielders who require platoon partners, or defensive partners, all consuming roster spots.

Go get a very good RFer. Friedl in CF. Steer in left is fine. And have a fourth outfielder (I’d say Benson) who can play all three positions. Add utility men to the bench who can play around the field competently and can hit a little.

And BTW, if Steer is in your outfield, keep him there. He can play everyday. But he’s always filling other holes.

[mth123]

This will be discussed a million times between now and 2025 but here is my guess as to what they do/approach they take to OF '25:

LF-Steer
We have a cheap, young, controllable 2 WAR guy

CF-Friedl
see Steer with some slight injury concerns

RF-Benson/Fairchild platoon
2 young, cheap, controllable guys who could produce about a 2 WAR player if their platoon roles are adhered to.

Defense? What's a defense?

I am looking at the FA to be OF market and it's as bleak as the Reds upper minors are for OF talent. I just don't see where help is coming from.

Ugh! If this is how it plays out, may as well forfeit all the games and save the wear and tear on the players.

Steer shouldn't be a regular in the OF. They need a new guy who can hit clean-up against RHP and LHP in one corner (My pick is Anthony Santander who currently does that in the best line-up in baseball) and ideally another new guy who can hit 5th in the other one. If they must platoon, it should be Fraley and not Benson and probably Steer as the RH half. Steer should play 1B against RHP. Candy can get his PAs piecemeal by backing up Steer at 1B and playing there against LHP and backing up Marte at 3B. India can be the regular DH and back-up EDLC and McLain by playing 2B when they sit and Candy could get more DH PAs that way.

The last thing they should do is count on any positions for bats that have proven questionable. That includes Benson, CES, Hinds and, the recently acquired Hall of Famer, Wiemers. Marte is running out of time to keep from being added to that list. If he can't turn it around, Candy probably becomes the everyday 3B and Marte and CES can compete for the role I described for Candy above.

[mth123]

1. Those are Friedl’s career numbers.
2. The Reds are not clogged in the OF. Quite the opposite. They need OF’ers. I actually said I think Wiemers will be the Reds CF next season. I think he will earn it. I do think he should be as well.

The Cardinals are doing well with Siani who is worse offensively than Wiemer, but excelling on defense. Billy Hamilton provided league average overall production for the Reds for 5 seasons, hitting worse than Wiemer has so far. Many teams have been successful with defensive first CF who hit as well or worse than Wiemer.

The Reds don’t like set lineups so we need to stop thinking about anyone being the “CF” or “LF”. But adding Wiemer into the mix as someone who can play CF much of the time makes the Reds better. They need a defensive first CF to succeed, imo, and Wiemer fits that well.

I think if the Reds had capable players, they wouldn't juggle so much. They have flawed players who need to be matched-up, so juggling becomes necessary. This year, some players have failed at the things where they were counting on the match-up being in their favor. Those are the players who should be given lesser roles or phased out completely. The fix is to get better players who can play every day.

If the Reds elect to continue using the piecemeal approach, it's further evidence that Krall needs to be replaced (Personally, I think there is already plenty of evidence).

This is why I hate the Wiemers acquisition. It's just adding another fatally flawed player to the mix and my hunch is that Krall thinks he fixed the OF by doing that.

[SirFelixCat]

I like your optimism, but what in their history, makes you think they will make better acquisitions this winter? They did nothing last offseason or this season to fill a glaring hole in the outfield. Also, paid 24 million combined towards Pagan and Montas this past offseason, that even us armchair executives could see, probably wasn’t going to be money well spent. I hate to be pessimistic, but that screams incompetence in my eyes.


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McLain manning second and CES manning first allowed for Steer & India to have improved the offense via the OF. Injuries sank this season, regardless of what you or anyone else says. Could they have better spent the money? Maybe. Months as a bounce back candidate was a reasonable bet imho. Didn’t work out. That happens. But please, don’t let me ruin the narrative.

They spent money last season and I believe they will this offseason. I do hope it pans out better, but I also see what the plan was, before massive injuries sank the team.

[Kc61]

Ugh! If this is how it plays out, may as well forfeit all the games and save the wear and tear on the players.

Steer shouldn't be a regular in the OF. They need a new guy who can hit clean-up against RHP and LHP in one corner (My pick is Anthony Santander who currently does that in the best line-up in baseball) and ideally another new guy who can hit 5th in the other one. If they must platoon, it should be Fraley and not Benson and probably Steer as the RH half. Steer should play 1B against RHP. Candy can get his PAs piecemeal by backing up Steer at 1B and playing there against LHP and backing up Marte at 3B. India can be the regular DH and back-up EDLC and McLain by playing 2B when they sit and Candy could get more DH PAs that way.

The last thing they should do is count on any positions for bats that have proven questionable. That includes Benson, CES, Hinds and, the recently acquired Hall of Famer, Wiemers. Marte is running out of time to keep from being added to that list. If he can't turn it around, Candy probably becomes the everyday 3B and Marte and CES can compete for the role I described for Candy above.

I disagree on Steer. If he’s your left fielder, then keep him there. Otherwise you get chaos. You need multiple extra outfielders to satisfy the position. You have Steer in LF, but sometimes Benson, but not against lefties, so maybe it’s Fairchild. It’s like musical chairs. Not the way to have a cohesive team.

Personally, I’d try India in LF. It’s a way to keep him in the lineup. But if it’s Steer leave him there. Agree with Santander in RF and Friedl in CF.

[mth123]

I disagree on Steer. If he’s your left fielder, then keep him there. Otherwise you get chaos. You need multiple extra outfielders to satisfy the position. You have Steer in LF, but sometimes Benson, but not against lefties, so maybe it’s Fairchild. It’s like musical chairs. Not the way to have a cohesive team.

Personally, I’d try India in LF. It’s a way to keep him in the lineup. But if it’s Steer leave him there. Agree with Santander in RF and Friedl in CF.

Well, again, ideally they'd get a LF and a RF this winter and Steer could stay at 1B. That's why I thought adding at the deadline was so important. They also need a #2 starting pitcher and a fireman reliever. I think that's going to be too much for the Resources the Reds have available (expendable prospects with value and money). If they have to skimp on one of those positions, I think they could get by with Steer and Fraley sharing a corner OF spot and Steer moving between positions. It's not what I prefer, but I think Clean-up hitter, #2 starter, fireman reliever all are bigger needs than a second corner OF.

They had a chance to add decent corner OF options at the deadline who were dealt for very little. They passed because they are cheap and stupid, so now they have a bigger task this winter and it will probably require more resources or cutting corners (as in one of the corner OF). When they cut those corners, that's when it may become necessary to continue moving Steer between 1B and a Corner OF spot.

[LiferJim]

McLain manning second and CES manning first allowed for Steer & India to have improved the offense via the OF. Injuries sank this season, regardless of what you or anyone else says. Could they have better spent the money? Maybe. Months as a bounce back candidate was a reasonable bet imho. Didn’t work out. That happens. But please, don’t let me ruin the narrative.

They spent money last season and I believe they will this offseason. I do hope it pans out better, but I also see what the plan was, before massive injuries sank the team.

Ok, I’ll partially give you the outfield problems, due to injuries. But counting on Montas after he barely pitched in 2023 didn’t seem like an optimal plan, nor did signing the fly ball pitcher called Pagan, to pitch in GAB. That 24 million for two huge question marks, was almost 1/4 of the Reds total payroll.

I do hope they spend this offseason, but I certainly hope they spend a bit wiser.


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[SirFelixCat]

Ok, I’ll partially give you the outfield problems, due to injuries. But counting on Montas after he barely pitched in 2023 didn’t seem like an optimal plan, nor did signing the fly ball pitcher called Pagan, to pitch in GAB. That 24 million for two huge question marks, was almost 1/4 of the Reds total payroll.

I do hope they spend this offseason, but I certainly hope they spend a bit wiser.


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I’m with you on Pagan.

However I think this off season the focus should be on a power bat for the OF and BP help.

[Kc61]

Ok, I’ll partially give you the outfield problems, due to injuries. But counting on Montas after he barely pitched in 2023 didn’t seem like an optimal plan, nor did signing the fly ball pitcher called Pagan, to pitch in GAB. That 24 million for two huge question marks, was almost 1/4 of the Reds total payroll.

I do hope they spend this offseason, but I certainly hope they spend a bit wiser.


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Reds knew what they were getting with Montas. He was ok until his later outings. But he was just a one-year pitcher, moveable at the deadline, coming off injury. They probably expected 4.50 ERA and got 5.00. Never part of long term plan.

Pagan, OTOH, is a good reliever. Strikes guys out. Reds philosophy seems to be don’t worry about fly balls. Get bat missers. That’s why they have such a poor ground ball rate most of the time.

They knew what they were getting. If they shoot higher, spend a little more, they’ll get better guys.

[LiferJim]

I’m with you on Pagan.

However I think this off season the focus should be on a power bat for the OF and BP help.

I agree. Hopefully it’s an every day power hitter and not another platoon


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[mth123]

Reds knew what they were getting with Montas. He was ok until his later outings. But he was just a one-year pitcher, moveable at the deadline, coming off injury. They probably expected 4.50 ERA and got 5.00. Never part of long term plan.

Pagan, OTOH, is a good reliever. Strikes guys out. Reds philosophy seems to be don’t worry about fly balls. Get bat missers. That’s why they have such a poor ground ball rate most of the time.

They knew what they were getting. If they shoot higher, spend a little more, they’ll get better guys.

They should be able to get better than Montas, Pagan and Candy by spending the same or less. A lotr of teams got better than Montas for a lot less.

[LiferJim]

Frankie update. 2 innings pitched, 1 hit, and 3 strikeouts


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[757690]

Frankie update. 2 innings pitched, 1 hit, and 3 strikeouts


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Rooting for Frankie. He was a good teammate, helped Greene and Lodolo grow and was a class act as a Red. I hope he pitches well enough to get a good contract next season, but the Brewers still get knocked out in the first round.