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Thread: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

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    Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    I'd really like to know everyone's opinion on what they think. I hear many on here say managers don't matter in today's game. Well, how are in game decisions made? By Krall? By the analytics department? A computer? Some secret Reds god of analytics? Bell and the coaches? A combination? A printed out paper before every game? What says the board?


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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    I'd really like to know everyone's opinion on what they think. I hear many on here say managers don't matter in today's game. Well, how are in game decisions made? By Krall? By the analytics department? A computer? Some secret Reds god of analytics? Bell and the coaches? A combination? A printed out paper before every game? What says the board?

    There’s plenty of proof out there that the front offices are making most of the decisions these days. World Series winner Joe Maddon wrote an entire book complaining about it (and is not currently in a dugout).

    There’s a reason why these teams keep hiring guys with no experience, and why there’s been one mid-season firing in the last 3-4 years, it’s because a manager’s job has changed.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    There’s plenty of proof out there that the front offices are making most of the decisions these days. World Series winner Joe Maddon wrote an entire book complaining about it (and is not currently in a dugout).

    There’s a reason why these teams keep hiring guys with no experience, and why there’s been one mid-season firing in the last 3-4 years, it’s because a manager’s job has changed.
    How's it done? A direct line to the dugout?

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    How's it done? A direct line to the dugout?
    They were doing that with the Mets a couple years ago.

    From what I’ve been finding in my reading of this is that before each game the front office sends down a game plan to the clubhouse, including bullpen usage and lineups, etc.

    They’ve got iPads in the dugout, so they are getting information all the time.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Here’s some passages from Maddon’s book. If the Angels were doing this to Joe, think about what other teams are doing with managers without his resume.


    https://www.si.com/mlb/2022/10/06/jo...i-book-excerpt


    https://www.si.com/mlb/angels/news/a...wrote-his-book


    Here’s one paragraph regarding bullpens:


    Moreover, what Maddon calls a pregame “choreography” took root, spearheaded by Minasian and Tamin. Those two, not Maddon and his coaches, would decide which relief pitchers were not available for the game that night. It was based on a proprietary algorithm developed by Tamin that kept track of a pitcher’s work in rolling 30-day increments. In recent years it had become common for front offices to usurp control of the bullpen from managers. So-and-so “is down tonight” entered baseball parlance, and it came from upstairs. “In that losing stretch that led to my demise, a lot of relievers were made unavailable,” Maddon says. “I couldn’t use them.
    Last edited by LeatherPants; 08-04-2024 at 05:45 PM.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Here’s a story from five years ago about the Mets calling down to the dugout during games. Can’t imagine that it’s not even more so now.


    https://es.pn/2FwIhf9

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    Revering4Blue (08-04-2024),Ron Madden (08-05-2024)

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Just found this one, and David Bell is actually mentioned. It’s about “load management” for players. Resting players based on how far they run during a game (or a week or a month)

    https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/...-rock-baseball

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    "Dave... Phil's on the phone again. He's slurring his words pretty badly, but if I'm understanding him, he wants you to put Elly in at pitcher, because, and I quote, "because I'm the ****ing boss and I ****ing said so, so do it.""


    Yessir, right away sir.
    "When financial success is attainable without on-field success, why rock the boat?"

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    So, do the Reds have an analytical team doing this, or is it Krall, Meador, and a few more front office guys? Here's the thing with this, most of these analytical guys are computer nerds who never played. There is a personal, camaraderie part of the game, i.e. Joe Maddon's lucky Mohawk, that these nerds don't understand. It's more about just stats and numbers. Sometimes a "gut" feeling is needed.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    So, do the Reds have an analytical team doing this, or is it Krall, Meador, and a few more front office guys? Here's the thing with this, most of these analytical guys are computer nerds who never played. There is a personal, camaraderie part of the game, i.e. Joe Maddon's lucky Mohawk, that these nerds don't understand. It's more about just stats and numbers. Sometimes a "gut" feeling is needed.
    BASEBALL OPERATIONS
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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    It’s 2024 not 1924, moxie and gumption isn’t enough for a manager.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    I'd really like to know everyone's opinion on what they think. I hear many on here say managers don't matter in today's game. Well, how are in game decisions made? By Krall? By the analytics department? A computer? Some secret Reds god of analytics? Bell and the coaches? A combination? A printed out paper before every game? What says the board?
    I think Individual decisions are made by the Manager, but they are constrained by the organization's vision for players. For example, if the organization sees Benson as a long-term player who can provide offense platooning in the OF, I don't think Bell has the power to bench him against RHP. He can sit him for health reasons and decide whether to yank him or leave him in if the opponent brings in a lefty. This is the reason I don't think Managers matter. It's not that they don't make decisions, but given the constraints, any Manager would make most of the same decisions. Personally, I'm not a Bell fan, but I don't think firing him will make any difference, because the new guy will be a guy who shares the same vision as the organization and do all the same stuff.

    It's less clear about the Bullpen. I don't know Johnson's exact title, but in theory he makes all the pitching decisions for the organization. I don't know if that only pertains to development or if it includes in game pitching changes. I'm sure he's consulted, and my guess is that Bell defers to him. There are also organizational constraints here as well. If the organization envisions Cruz as the fireman, he's getting the ball in those situations if he's available. I think Johnson decides who is available and the organizational constraints generally dictate who is used in what spot. This is another case where I think it's largely out of Bell's hands. I think Cruz should be optioned to AAA, but I don't think Bell has the power to do that. If he's stuck with him, he's going to have to use him.
    Last edited by mth123; 08-04-2024 at 06:14 PM.
    All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    It’s 2024 not 1924, moxie and gumption isn’t enough for a manager.
    Who is to say? As Maddon states there is a place for analytics, but a manager with the know how to handle players, situations, etc. is needed. Nerds don't see any value in this, but most who have played at a high school level or above should understand.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...s/73487653007/

    – It was the constant media criticism and interference from the Astros’ analytics department that ultimately led Dusty Baker to retire as manager after last season.

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    Re: Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    Who is to say? As Maddon states there is a place for analytics, but a manager with the know how to handle players, situations, etc. is needed. Nerds don't see any value in this, but most who have played at a high school level or above should understand.
    Nerrrrrrrredds!!!!!


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