Who is making the Reds in game decisions?

[LeatherPants]

So, you think the Reds analytics staff were a bunch of ball players? No, they are statistical nerds. What's wrong with saying that? It is what it is and their information is useful, but is it the end all be all? You need some guys who've been there done that when the winning run is on 3rd with 2 outs making decisions also.

Exactly zero people have said that there shouldn’t be.

Thinking that everyone in the front office is a nerd and has never played the game is just wrong. Go back and look again at who has jobs in the Reds’ front office. Are you going to call Eric Davis a nerd that’s never swung a bat? Do you know the background of everyone on that list? You’re making a bunch of assumptions.

- - - Updated - - -

I don’t think the Reds’ analytics team is calling down to the dugout to tell Bell what moves to make.
.

Other teams are doing exactly that, why do you think the Reds are any different?

[RedsFanInMS]

Exactly zero people have said that there shouldn’t be.

Thinking that everyone in the front office is a nerd and has never played the game is just wrong. Go back and look again at who has jobs in the Reds’ front office. Are you going to call Eric Davis a nerd that’s never swung a bat? Do you know the background of everyone on that list? You’re making a bunch of assumptions.

- - - Updated - - -



Other teams are doing exactly that, why do you think the Reds are any different?

Good Lord dude you know what I'm talking about. I said the analytics department. Nothing against Eric, but I highly doubt he hangs out in the analytics department, and I also doubt he's making many big decisions. I understand there are GM's who played such as Getz from the White Sox, but most of those in front offices are analytic dudes that are math and statistical nerds and you know it. Hell, many of them have Ivy League degrees in it. It doesn't matter anyway. You aren't changing my mind on how an organization should be ran, and I'm not changing yours. Agree to disagree.

[LeatherPants]

Good Lord dude you know what I'm talking about. I said the analytics department. Nothing against Eric, but I highly doubt he hangs out in the analytics department, and I also doubt he's making many big decisions. I understand there are GM's who played such as Getz from the White Sox, but most of those in front offices are analytic dudes that are math and statistical nerds and you know it. Hell, many of them have Ivy League degrees in it. It doesn't matter anyway. You aren't changing my mind on how an organization should be ran, and I'm not changing yours. Agree to disagree.

And I said the front office.

[RedsFanInMS]

And I said the front office.

Ok?

[westofyou]

“Nerds who have never swung a bat or hit a ball”?



I can’t even with this stuff. Next thing you’ll start with the “living in their mother’s basement”.

In the Clinton era I recall hearing this and today the game is incredibly different because of analysis of huge data sets that were unavailable then, but now are.

So I'm pretty sure it's a pretty impactful thing that's happening still today, due to the work that's been being done, I'm sure nobody in this business thinks it's not impactful

[RedsFanInMS]

In the Clinton era I recall hearing this and today the game is incredibly different because of analysis of huge data sets that were unavailable then, but now are.

So I'm pretty sure it's a pretty impactful thing that's happening still today, due to the work that's been being done, I'm sure nobody in this business thinks it's not impactful

Never said it wasn't. I said it's a place for both analytics and old school type management. However, I don't think it's the end all be all of how to run an organization. Read the whole thread not just bits and pieces.

[westofyou]

Never said it wasn't. I said it's a place for both analytics and old school type management. However, I don't think it's the end all be all of how to run an organization. Read the whole thread not just bits and pieces.

Of course there is, Texas is a fine example, full analysis fueled FO led by a former pitcher, with an old school manager.

There are 30 teams in MLB and they all do something different than the rest of MLB, so I take any thought of everyone being like the Angels with a grain of salt. But make no mistake the analyst is in the clubhouse talking to players and staff, he's just a different type of coach

I can't recommend this article on pitching analytics and the game today enough

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/558...pecial-series/

There is an incredible amount of information being used to change guys careers on the mound, it's squeezing offense out of the game and it's a main driver of the Reds season as they have excelled on the mound and failed at the plate

[GAC]

A fellow Reds fan (not on here) brought this point up concerning yesterday's game (lineup). And No, he can't stand Bell, thinks he's a terrible manager (lol). But he does, IMO, at times, bring up some valid points to buoy his argument(s).

"So Reds manager David Bell puts Santiago Espinal, an infielder, in left field, Spencer Steer in right field where he never plays, and sits his catcher, Tyler Stephenson, after he hits 2 home runs the previous game. I'm scratching my head as this guy continues to out-think himself."

I hope this FO isn't making those decisions; but I'm sure there's a logical explanation. But I'm not afraid to admit that many times I'm quite befuddled by Bell's lineups. Is it the introduction of the DH, taking the pitcher out of the batting order, that has led to this type of thinking on lineup construction? The other day battng Friedl cleanup. I don't understand Bell's thinking at times. I consider it unconventional, but I'm an old fart when it comes to the game of baseball.

[RedsFanInMS]

A fellow Reds fan (not on here) brought this point up concerning yesterday's game (lineup). And No, he can't stand Bell, thinks he's a terrible manager (lol). But he does, IMO, at times, bring up some valid points to buoy his argument(s).

"So Reds manager David Bell puts Santiago Espinal, an infielder, in left field, Spencer Steer in right field where he never plays, and sits his catcher, Tyler Stephenson, after he hits 2 home runs the previous game. I'm scratching my head as this guy continues to out-think himself."

I hope this FO isn't making those decisions; but I'm sure there's a logical explanation. But I'm not afraid to admit that many times I'm quite befuddled by Bell's lineups. Is it the introduction of the DH, taking the pitcher out of the batting order, that has led to this type of thinking on lineup construction? The other day battng Friedl cleanup. I don't understand Bell's thinking at times. I consider it unconventional, but I'm an old fart when it comes to the game of baseball.

If I was Bell, and it was the front office making those asinine lineups definitely question them on it, which he might, but I doubt it. Bell is probably a "yes man" if he indeed has no input like some think. I personally think he has input and agrees with the lineups and bullpen usage.

- - - Updated - - -

Of course there is, Texas is a fine example, full analysis fueled FO led by a former pitcher, with an old school manager.

There are 30 teams in MLB and they all do something different than the rest of MLB, so I take any thought of everyone being like the Angels with a grain of salt. But make no mistake the analyst is in the clubhouse talking to players and staff, he's just a different type of coach

I can't recommend this article on pitching analytics and the game today enough

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/558...pecial-series/

There is an incredible amount of information being used to change guys careers on the mound, it's squeezing offense out of the game and it's a main driver of the Reds season as they have excelled on the mound and failed at the plate

What do you think about the Reds? Are they like the Angels and ran exclusively by the front office/analytics team, or do you think it's shared between them, and Bell and his coaches?

[mth123]

I think a lot of Bell's terrible decisions are coming from organizational philosophy and I think many of the pitching decisions are on Johnson, but I'd be surprised if anyone other than Bell is making out the batting order. He may be playing certain players in certain roles based on front office directives, but I'd be shocked if some one else is deciding who hit's first, who hits clean-up and who hits 9th.

IMO, the crazy line-ups are on Bell, but I don't think they make a huge difference in the game.

At the end of the day, they need to replace Krall and whoever replaces him needs to go out and make some significant changes to the players on the roster. Worrying about Bell is like blaming your car's performance on a small crack in the windshield while the engine is falling apart. Ideally, you'd fix the crack in the windshield, but until you find a good mechanic who can overhaul the engine, the car is still going to sputter down the street and get stuck on the side of the road a lot.

[Kc61]

I believe the following -

Bell makes the in game decisions based on guidelines or sometimes requirements issued by front office.

Front office issues those guidelines/requirements based in part on big picture/financial direction from ownership. Those guidelines/decisions are also based on analytics and FO baseball philosophy.

Ownership directives are general and concerned with winning but within the bounds of business/financial objectives.

[LiferJim]

If I was Bell, and it was the front office making those asinine lineups definitely question them on it, which he might, but I doubt it. Bell is probably a "yes man" if he indeed has no input like some think. I personally think he has input and agrees with the lineups and bullpen usage.

- - - Updated - - -


What do you think about the Reds? Are they like the Angels and ran exclusively by the front office/analytics team, or do you think it's shared between them, and Bell and his coaches?

I personally think that with his resume, that Bell does have a lot of say/input on decisions being made. That said, I also realize he’s not the only problem, but I think he does hold some responsibility for the teams poor performance and bad fundamentals.

There’s a whole cast of characters in this organization, that should be relieved of their duties, including Mr. Monotone “We play the game the right way”.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[westofyou]

What do you think about the Reds? Are they like the Angels and ran exclusively by the front office/analytics team, or do you think it's shared between them, and Bell and his coaches?

I think the Reds probably have a line to the FO that is open outside of gametime, I don't believe that many (if any) FO's regularly call in during the game. Like any large business the Reds prepare each project (series) with meetings and discovery, that means documents and a plan of attack with contingency plans. All that work is broken up by someone and distributed to the staff and the players, the little cards each player has in their pockets in the field are created from those meetings the iPads are loaded with video of the prior PAs vs the opposing pitchers, scouting meets with each group and the organization decides who will pitch in what innings and who will PH against what pitcher. When the time comes n the game if those matchups are still valid then they are executed, if not then Bell and staff confer on contingencies. Post series they meet with the FO team (analytics, GM staff) run a post mortem, gather info from that and feed it into the next series plan, adjusting players and or approaches based on health and results.

It's a huge endeavor and it's not the same every time or everywhere, but I'm guessing the Reds approach the season agilely, making small adjustments more than large ones and only making large ones when they are forced to or see opportunity (which is the abstract part that drives fans crazy)

[westofyou]

"So Reds manager David Bell puts Santiago Espinal, an infielder, in left field, Spenc high in every MLB er Steer in right field where he never plays, and sits his catcher, Tyler Stephenson, after he hits 2 home runs the previous game. I'm scratching my head as this guy continues to out-think himself."

Guy's a catcher, day game after a night game chances are extremely high that he sits all day, not only has he spent his season squatting he's also in the game mentally for every single pitch of the contest, he's in need of a break all-around, it happens to work best when a day game arises.

He also had hit .192/.321/.255/.577 in the three weeks between his 2-HR game in Colorado and his 2-HR game Saturday, unsure which Stephenson would start Sunday, that guy or the two dinger guy.

[Chip R]

I believe the following -

Bell makes the in game decisions based on guidelines or sometimes requirements issued by front office.

Front office issues those guidelines/requirements based in part on big picture/financial direction from ownership. Those guidelines/decisions are also based on analytics and FO baseball philosophy.

Ownership directives are general and concerned with winning but within the bounds of business/financial objectives.

I agree with this. i think specific in-game decisions are left to him and his coaches according to the personnel he has available. The front office tells him which players are available for a certain game.

I personally think that with his resume, that Bell does have a lot of say/input on decisions being made. That said, I also realize he’s not the only problem, but I think he does hold some responsibility for the teams poor performance and bad fundamentals.

And I agree with this too. However, if the personnel doesn't change and the front office doesn't change, what makes anyone think they will improve in that area even with a new manager/coaches?