A first inning relief pitcher for starters 3-5

[JustaFan]

With the two recent games loss in the first inning plus several times the Reds and others have started relievers, can a rational argument be made for have a relief pitcher (opposite or same hand as following starter) for Martinez, already done twice, Abbott and Spiers

[Kc61]

With the two recent games loss in the first inning plus several times the Reds and others have started relievers, can a rational argument be made for have a relief pitcher (opposite or same hand as following starter) for Martinez, already done twice, Abbott and Spiers

What argument did you have in mind?

[OldFashionedRed]

What argument did you have in mind?

He's suggesting use relieft pitching to assist / replace starters, and looking for feedback.

[Kc61]

He's suggesting use relieft pitching to assist / replace starters, and looking for feedback.

I get that but what’s the argument for it? That Spiers and Abbott had bad first innings? Not sure what’s being argued as the reason to do this.

[redsfan9988]

Using an opener is what should happen in every game unless the guy starting is one of the top-100 or so SPs in baseball.

If your SP faces 21 batters, that means he faces 1-3 in the lineup (likely the opponent’s best three hitters) three times each and everyone else twice. If you have a hard-throwing reliever face the first five batters, your “starter” (bulk-reliever in this case) faces 6-8 three times and everyone else twice. This allows him to face worse hitters at the end of his outing when he may be more fatigued, or may just be figured out by the opposition.

You’re going to use relievers anyway. Use a good one in the 1st.

[Kc61]

Using an opener is what should happen in every game unless the guy starting is one of the top-100 or so SPs in baseball.

If your SP faces 21 batters, that means he faces 1-3 in the lineup (likely the opponent’s best three hitters) three times each and everyone else twice. If you have a hard-throwing reliever face the first five batters, your “starter” (bulk-reliever in this case) faces 6-8 three times and everyone else twice. This allows him to face worse hitters at the end of his outing when he may be more fatigued, or may just be figured out by the opposition.

You’re going to use relievers anyway. Use a good one in the 1st.

That is the rationale for using an opener, fully agree. To reduce the starter’s exposure to the top of the opponents’ order.

It’s less compelling for a starter who may give you 6-7 innings. It’s more compelling with a guy like Nick Martinez who - as a starter - gives you five innings.

I don’t see Reds doing this with Abbott. For the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation, I can see it.

[redsfan9988]

That is the rationale for using an opener, fully agree. To reduce the starter’s exposure to the top of the opponents’ order.

It’s less compelling for a starter who may give you 6-7 innings. It’s more compelling with a guy like Nick Martinez who - as a starter - gives you five innings.

I don’t see Reds doing this with Abbott. For the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation, I can see it.

Agreed. If it were up to me, Greene, Lodolo, and Abbott would be used as regular starters and Spiers and Martinez would be used as bulk guys.

[mth123]

I think the answer is to go get two more starters like Greene, Lodolo and Abbott.

[Tony Cloninger]

Can’t stand the whole opener stuff. And a few guys having a bad first inning is not a reason to start using openers for them.
I get why they use them if a starter Needs to be pushed back or just an emergency.

Spiers had his first bad game. Panic on RedsZone without failure. And you are not replacing Abbott with an opener either. Spiers can be a flash in the plan eventually sure. Hopefully Lowder and Petty will make this issue moot next year as well. Who knows who they will sign as a starter as well.

[redsfan9988]

Can’t stand the whole opener stuff. And a few guys having a bad first inning is not a reason to start using openers for them.
I get why they use them if a starter Needs to be pushed back or just an emergency.

Spiers had his first bad game. Panic on RedsZone without failure. And you are not replacing Abbott with an opener either. Spiers can be a flash in the plan eventually sure. Hopefully Lowder and Petty will make this issue moot next year as well. Who knows who they will sign as a starter as well.

I agree with you assuming you have five good MLB starting pitchers…

But make no mistake - using an opener is a MUCH better strategy than using subpar arms as regular starters.

[jedwards]

Absolutely, youre getting length in your starter going past 5 or 6 innings into the important 7, 8 innings still going well. For the 3rd time thru but only his second time facing batters. And, not bringing in a cold arm or two from the bottom of the stack who come in the middle of the games, who maybe is off. That also is letting you use your top 2-4 best relievers at the end, not the guys from the bottom of the pool. Jmo.

[redsfan9988]

Emilio Pagan is listed as the starter for tonight’s game. Carson Spiers will work in bulk relief.

Let’s see how it works out.

[oregonred]

Emilio Pagan is listed as the starter for tonight’s game. Carson Spiers will work in bulk relief.

Let’s see how it works out.

very well I predict