Marte Un-Appreciation Thread

[M2]

Marte's still got his baby teeth, so plenty of time to right himself in the future. BUT if he doesn't and Arroyo never materializes, that Castillo trade falls into "woof" territory.

[westofyou]

Marte's still got his baby teeth, so plenty of time to right himself in the future. BUT if he doesn't and Arroyo never materializes, that Castillo trade falls into "woof" territory.

Exactly why they won't trade him for a bag of Magic Beans

[M2]

Exactly why they won't trade him for a bag of Magic Beans

They'll definitely give him a bazillion shots, like Nick Senzel. Though I'd argue he is their can of magic beans, or at least he came in the magic beans haul they got for Castillo.

[Tom Servo]

It is appropriate that the Reds get a consensus good deal on two great infield prospects, so the one shortstop gets popped for roids and sucks when he gets a shot and the other has him arm detached from his body.

[mth123]

Don't MLB players need to adjust at the MLB level? We just gave Benson a chance no other team in baseball would have and he pretty closely resembled his minor league career with that chance. After a PED's issue we've given Marte a massive chance too. Why doesn't CES get one? He showed much more than either of them in the minors and was better longer last year than Marte. Seems like he should get a chance before we block him with a signing.... which is what I think a lot here want for some reason. I've advocated for letting Benson go after this season... I'd do the same next year if CES puts up sub .200 numbers.

As for last year.... I just checked. CES started slow and was in the .210 range before he adjusted and rose up to around .270 at the end of the year. So.. he adjusted it seems... not the other way around.

Not often a guy who shows power to all fields and hits better at each successive level comes along in Red's land and we'd play Candy over giving him a chance?

Candy is going to play. He makes $16.333 Million next year and someone will have to sit in favor of him. IMO, CES is the guy to start out in AAA, play every day, regain confidence and show some restraint at the plate. If he hits, they can recall him, slide Candy to 3B and make Espinal a reserve. Still, he needs to show something first. I don't open the season with him in the line-up and he needs to play every day to round back into form assuming there may be a form to round into.

I think CES still has a lot of questions. He is a high K, low BB hitter. Exactly the kind of hitter major league pitchers can exploit. He can't get away with stuff in the big leagues he got away with in the minors. There is a reason he was never the highly rated prospect that his stats suggested he should be. His hit tool and K/BB ratio suggest that he won't be successful at the big-league level. I hope he is, because a big power guy who isn't all or nothing is exactly what the team needs, but he completely fell off the map in 2024. It was a short season for him, but it's enough to send him back to AAA for me. I just don't see a position where he would be my first choice for PT unless the Reds add no one.

As for Benson and his extended futility continuing to play, this is exactly the type of losing stuff I want the Reds to get away from. The mistake made with Benson is the kind of mistake I don't want to see repeated. IMO, handing a position to CES or Marte would be repeating that mistake. For all of the futility we suffered through with Benson this year, at no point was he as bad as what we saw from CES or are continuing to see with Marte. IMO, Benson probably needs to go away and Marte and CES need to go back to AAA and knock down the door. If they are good, they will, but based on our most recent experience with them, they aren't big league caliber players and shouldn't be handed a spot on the opening day roster without re-establishing themselves by dominating AAA.

[LiferJim]

Candy is going to play. He makes $16.333 Million next year and someone will have to sit in favor of him. IMO, CES is the guy to start out in AAA, play every day, regain confidence and show some restraint at the plate. If he hits, they can recall him, slide Candy to 3B and make Espinal a reserve. Still, he needs to show something first. I don't open the season with him in the line-up and he needs to play every day to round back into form assuming there may be a form to round into.

I think CES still has a lot of questions. He is a high K, low BB hitter. Exactly the kind of hitter major league pitchers can exploit. He can't get away with stuff in the big leagues he got away with in the minors. There is a reason he was never the highly rated prospect that his stats suggested he should be. His hit tool and K/BB ratio suggest that he won't be successful at the big-league level. I hope he is, because a big power guy who isn't all or nothing is exactly what the team needs, but he completely fell off the map in 2024. It was a short season for him, but it's enough to send him back to AAA for me. I just don't see a position where he would be my first choice for PT unless the Reds add no one.

As for Benson and his extended futility continuing to play, this is exactly the type of losing stuff I want the Reds to get away from. The mistake made with Benson is the kind of mistake I don't want to see repeated. IMO, handing a position to CES or Marte would be repeating that mistake. For all of the futility we suffered through with Benson this year, at no point was he as bad as what we saw from CES or are continuing to see with Marte. IMO, Benson probably needs to go away and Marte and CES need to go back to AAA and knock down the door. If they are good, they will, but based on our most recent experience with them, they aren't big league caliber players and shouldn't be handed a spot on the opening day roster without re-establishing themselves by dominating AAA.

You’re right, the Reds should have never given Benson or Marte as many at bats as they have this year. As for Candy, no one is going to take that contract, so we are stuck with him and hopes that he has a bounce back year in 2025. This team was poorly constructed, with too many 1st basemen/DH types and poor defensive players. I still think if CES shows up to spring training hitting the ball well and showing better plate discipline, he deserves a place on the roster. We all know someone will get injured, so I think there will be plenty of playing time for CES, if he is indeed ready.

Regardless, get us a good hitting everyday outfielder Mr. Krall and the rest will work itself out.


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[westofyou]

They'll definitely give him a bazillion shots, like Nick Senzel. Though I'd argue he is their can of magic beans, or at least he came in the magic beans haul they got for Castillo.

Exactly, they will not deal him when his value is low, why would they? The ghosts of the Cueto trade probably haunt the clubhouse and scare the hell out of the Reds FO

[CySeymour]

I really suspect Marte’s issue is he’s pressing to try and make up for his PED bust. He had a solid walk rate in the minors but had only drawn 5 in about 200 plate appearances this season. It’s fair to think a longer stint In Louisville this season would have been appropriate.

[Old school 1983]

I really suspect Marte’s issue is he’s pressing to try and make up for his PED bust. He had a solid walk rate in the minors but had only drawn 5 in about 200 plate appearances this season. It’s fair to think a longer stint In Louisville this season would have been appropriate.

Likely the case. I expected him to be there most of the year. The injury bug likely played a role in that. Maybe they wanted to boost his confidence. Either way, I let him reset over the offseason and tell him the organization still believes in him and to go into next year fully prepared with his head on straight.

[westofyou]

I really suspect Marte’s issue is he’s pressing to try and make up for his PED bust. He had a solid walk rate in the minors but had only drawn 5 in about 200 plate appearances this season. It’s fair to think a longer stint In Louisville this season would have been appropriate.

For sure, the kid has 309 PAs for his career, he's now been benched and he's having the worst two-strike approach I've seen in awhile (example 2-2 counts, .054/.079/.081 in 38 PAs)

[CySeymour]

Likely the case. I expected him to be there most of the year. The injury bug likely played a role in that. Maybe they wanted to boost his confidence. Either way, I let him reset over the offseason and tell him the organization still believes in him and to go into next year fully prepared with his head on straight.

For sure, the org needs to give him all the right tools to succeed. If you remember when he was called up this season the team was really struggling offensively, so I suspect it was also a panic move by the Reds to try and inject more runs. Opps.

[mth123]

You’re right, the Reds should have never given Benson or Marte as many at bats as they have this year. As for Candy, no one is going to take that contract, so we are stuck with him and hopes that he has a bounce back year in 2025. This team was poorly constructed, with too many 1st basemen/DH types and poor defensive players. I still think if CES shows up to spring training hitting the ball well and showing better plate discipline, he deserves a place on the roster. We all know someone will get injured, so I think there will be plenty of playing time for CES, if he is indeed ready.

Regardless, get us a good hitting everyday outfielder Mr. Krall and the rest will work itself out.


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If he has a really hot Spring Training, I might change my mind. I'm not in love with starting Espinal and think his best destiny is as a utility guy who plays strong defense at a lot of spots and can give a competitive PA even if he doesn't have eye popping production. On this team, a guy like that is one of the 9 best players until someone steps forward. Step 1 is to prove it in AAA IMO.

The priority needs to be to get the automatic outs out of the line-up. IMO, Benson, Marte and CES are the top three in that category.

[mth123]

I really suspect Marte’s issue is he’s pressing to try and make up for his PED bust. He had a solid walk rate in the minors but had only drawn 5 in about 200 plate appearances this season. It’s fair to think a longer stint In Louisville this season would have been appropriate.

I think Marte and CES both suffered from this. It's why I don't throw either back into the deep end of the pool. Go down, get on a roll, dominate and come back with the confidence that will help them avoid pressing.

[mgbrown66]

I think Marte needs to start next year in AAA. The other guys the Reds have given long leashes to have shown to rake AAA pitching (CES, Elly, McLain,) whereas Marte has not.

[CySeymour]

I think Marte needs to start next year in AAA. The other guys the Reds have given long leashes to have shown to rake AAA pitching (CES, Elly, McLain,) whereas Marte has not.

I'm not so sure it's that cut and dry, but for sure the organization will need to let Marte know he needs to show something next spring to prove he needs to start the season in the big leagues.