Marte Un-Appreciation Thread

[Kc61]

If you’re going to rebuild with 22 year old players in the starting lineup, situations like Marte are probably going to happen. It’s an unfortunate part of the rebuilding process. I wouldn’t give up on him but I don’t think he currently belongs in the majors.

He’s striking out more, 31%, and walking less, under 3%, this year. He’s never been that type of hitter. He definitely needs a re-set. His defense has always been overrated because he moves well out there, but he was error prone in the minors. His professionalism should improve with maturity.

I’d be careful not to give this guy away, I think it would be a mistake. But I’d start him off at AAA next season. I wouldn’t risk another season of this type of performance if Reds are trying to win in 2025.

[mth123]

If you’re going to rebuild with 22 year old players in the starting lineup, situations like Marte are probably going to happen. It’s an unfortunate part of the rebuilding process. I wouldn’t give up on him but I don’t think he currently belongs in the majors.

He’s striking out more, 31%, and walking less, under 3%, this year. He’s never been that type of hitter. He definitely needs a re-set. His defense has always been overrated because he moves well out there, but he was error prone in the minors. His professionalism should improve with maturity.

I’d be careful not to give this guy away, I think it would be a mistake. But I’d start him off at AAA next season. I wouldn’t risk another season of this type of performance if Reds are trying to win in 2025.

I'd trade him in a deal for the right piece, but I don't think he has value as anything more than a 3rd guy in the deal flyer at this point. He should be ticketed for AAA in 2025 and should probably one of the first cuts in Spring Training. He shouldn't even be an option to make the Reds on opening day IMO.

[Kc61]

I'd trade him in a deal for the right piece, but I don't think he has value as anything more than a 3rd guy in the deal flyer at this point. He should be ticketed for AAA in 2025 and should probably one of the first cuts in Spring Training. He shouldn't even be an option to make the Reds on opening day IMO.

Thinking about the Reds next year, assuming McLain is back, I’d move India to third base.

Let Marte begin at AAA and earn the right to displace Jon at third.

Keep Espinal as a defensive replacement for Jon, along with the other things Espinal brings.

Infield might be CES (France backup) at first; McLain; EDLC; India. Espinal utility.
DH would be Candelario, switch hitter, cross your fingers that he makes a comeback.

Outfield Steer, Friedl, and Babe Ruth.

[mth123]

Thinking about the Reds next year, assuming McLain is back, I’d move India to third base.

Let Marte begin at AAA and earn the right to displace Jon at third.

Keep Espinal as a defensive replacement for Jon, along with the other things Espinal brings.

Infield might be CES (France backup) at first; McLain; EDLC; India. Espinal utility.
DH would be Candelario, switch hitter, cross your fingers that he makes a comeback.

Outfield Steer, Friedl, and Babe Ruth.

I'd give CES the same treatment I'd give Marte. AAA to start out with little chance to make the team if everyone is healthy. Candy at 1B, McLain at 2B, EDLC at SS and Espinal at 3B. India DH most of the time, plays 2B when McLain sits or plays SS. Fraley would be a well used 4th OF and DH who could play when India, Candy, Steer or the new RF sits. Steer and Friedl and new guy as the primary OF. I'd get a cheaper or better back-up catcher ($3.5 Million is too much for what Maile does, either upgrade for more money or go with somebody like Austin Wynns for real cheap), a cheap end of the bench defender who can be easily disposed of if CES, Marte or somebody else re-asserts themselves in AAA and somebody to back-up Friedl. A guy like Ivan Johnson is having a solid year in AA/AAA and can play OF and 2B and might make a decent cheap end of the bench guy.

India DH
EDLC SS
McLain 2B
New Guy RF
Stephenson C
Steer LF
Candelario 1B
Espinal 3B
Friedl CF

Fraley, cheap C, Cheap IF, CF capable OF hopefully better fundamentally and at getting on base than Fairchild, but Fairchild would be OK if he doesn't have to play so much.

Marte and CES in AAA. Arroyo, Collier and Stewart in AA.

Move on from Benson.

[Tony Cloninger]

I know how people scoff at those who say Send them Down! Off with their head! They need to Will themselves to Power more and then remembering the movie. But at this point what better way to reward this entitled. It seems. Player than to send him to the minors. Bring up a player like Levi Jordan or a possible prospect in Ivan Johnson. Just promoted to AAA. Guys who might at least not think they have it made.

Kal Daniels was hitting over 330? In 1986. Got sent down for attitude issues. I couldn’t believe they would do that. It must have been that bad since his replacement was Tracy Jones and they also used Max Venable too. But back then you could probably do that more. You could actually feel like you can discipline a player and teach lessons. Now it might be more making an apology for hurting feelings. Asking to act more professional. Maybe pay attention. Maybe not celebrate by yelling and screaming and tossing your bat around after hitting a homer when you’ve been hitting less 200 almost all year.

My last point is not made directly at Marte but just the general over the top celebrating that made Jose Bautista look like Scott Rolen after hitting a homer.

[Kc61]

I'd give CES the same treatment I'd give Marte. AAA to start out with little chance to make the team if everyone is healthy. Candy at 1B, McLain at 2B, EDLC at SS and Espinal at 3B. India DH most of the time, plays 2B when McLain sits or plays SS. Fraley would be a well used 4th OF and DH who could play when India, Candy, Steer or the new RF sits. Steer and Friedl and new guy as the primary OF. I'd get a cheaper or better back-up catcher ($3.5 Million is too much for what Maile does, either upgrade for more money or go with somebody like Austin Wynns for real cheap), a cheap end of the bench defender who can be easily disposed of if CES, Marte or somebody else re-asserts themselves in AAA and somebody to back-up Friedl. A guy like Ivan Johnson is having a solid year in AA/AAA and can play OF and 2B and might make a decent cheap end of the bench guy.

India DH
EDLC SS
McLain 2B
New Guy RF
Stephenson C
Steer LF
Candelario 1B
Espinal 3B
Friedl CF

Fraley, cheap C, Cheap IF, CF capable OF hopefully better fundamentally and at getting on base than Fairchild, but Fairchild would be OK if he doesn't have to play so much.

Marte and CES in AAA. Arroyo, Collier and Stewart in AA.

Move on from Benson.

I’ve thought about this and agree on Marte but disagree on CES. I think CES should start out next season as the Reds’ presumptive first baseman.

Marte is 22, shows signs of immaturity, erratic defensively, makes mistakes. Arguably was rushed through the minors. I think he can benefit from AAA and should be there right now, frankly.

CES will be 25 this winter. He wasn’t rushed. He destroyed minor league pitching. He has - and likely will always have - K/BB discipline issues. But I don’t think AAA will solve that. I think it’s just something he’ll have to work on every day of his career.

I’d keep a good backup like France just in case. And I would not hit CES third in the lineup. Never quite got that decision.

Espinal can get heavy use as a utility player. He can even substitute in the OF, he has already. Utility is his best spot.

So I’m on with Friedl CF, McLain 2B, EDLC SS, Babe Ruth RF, Stephenson C, Steer LF, Candy DH, CES 1B, India 3B.

India bats ninth to provide a “second lead off hitter”. Against LHP they might switch India to leadoff and Friedl lower down.

[LiferJim]

I’ve thought about this and agree on Marte but disagree on CES. I think CES should start out next season as the Reds’ presumptive first baseman.

Marte is 22, shows signs of immaturity, erratic defensively, makes mistakes. Arguably was rushed through the minors. I think he can benefit from AAA and should be there right now, frankly.

CES will be 25 this winter. He wasn’t rushed. He destroyed minor league pitching. He has - and likely will always have - K/BB discipline issues. But I don’t think AAA will solve that. I think it’s just something he’ll have to work on every day of his career.

I’d keep a good backup like France just in case. And I would not hit CES third in the lineup. Never quite got that decision.

Espinal can get heavy use as a utility player. He can even substitute in the OF, he has already. Utility is his best spot.

So I’m on with Friedl CF, McLain 2B, EDLC SS, Babe Ruth RF, Stephenson C, Steer LF, Candy DH, CES 1B, India 3B.

India bats ninth to provide a “second lead off hitter”. Against LHP they might switch India to leadoff and Friedl lower down.

I agree about Marte and I have nothing against the kid, but I don’t like how the situation was handled at all.

I don’t see how the Reds could keep France for 9 or 10 million and still sign Babe Ruth to right field. Babes not going to be cheap. Not only that, I still think they need a veteran innings eater in the rotation. He won’t be cheap either.


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[Roy Tucker]

I’m not defending the guy, but this has just been a lost year for him. I would certainly hope he is counseled on any brain cramps on the field. That’s on the manager or coaches to do. I don’t think the Reds have a seasoned and proven pro that fills that role.

He just needs a reset next year, earn a spot in the roster, and willingly go to the minors if he shows he’s not ready.

[Kc61]

I agree about Marte and I have nothing against the kid, but I don’t like how the situation was handled at all.

I don’t see how the Reds could keep France for 9 or 10 million and still sign Babe Ruth to right field. Babes not going to be cheap. Not only that, I still think they need a veteran innings eater in the rotation. He won’t be cheap either.


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Reds are going to have to figure out the money. If not France then somebody else. The lack of depth hurts them every year. They may have to suspend the sticker shock for one off-season and go a little deeper into the pocketbook.

[Powder River]

I’ve thought about this and agree on Marte but disagree on CES. I think CES should start out next season as the Reds’ presumptive first baseman.

Marte is 22, shows signs of immaturity, erratic defensively, makes mistakes. Arguably was rushed through the minors. I think he can benefit from AAA and should be there right now, frankly.

CES will be 25 this winter. He wasn’t rushed. He destroyed minor league pitching. He has - and likely will always have - K/BB discipline issues. But I don’t think AAA will solve that. I think it’s just something he’ll have to work on every day of his career.

I’d keep a good backup like France just in case. And I would not hit CES third in the lineup. Never quite got that decision.

Espinal can get heavy use as a utility player. He can even substitute in the OF, he has already. Utility is his best spot.

So I’m on with Friedl CF, McLain 2B, EDLC SS, Babe Ruth RF, Stephenson C, Steer LF, Candy DH, CES 1B, India 3B.

India bats ninth to provide a “second lead off hitter”. Against LHP they might switch India to leadoff and Friedl lower down.

I like your lineup construction. The Babe in right field would definitely be an upgrade. I might try to sign someone with a little more speed though. We don’t want anyone hitting third, who’ll clog the bases. I wonder what it would take to get that Willie Mays kid? He looks like he can cover some ground in center and hits for decent power. While we’re at it, I wonder if we could sign Seaver for a return to Cincinnati?

[LiferJim]

Reds are going to have to figure out the money. If not France then somebody else. The lack of depth hurts them every year. They may have to suspend the sticker shock for one off-season and go a little deeper into the pocketbook.

I agree, but will they dig deeper in their pockets? If not, I would prefer to sign one impact player, as opposed to several middle of the road players. You’re also right about depth always being an issue, but can they really afford to pay a potential backup what France will demand. With his declining numbers, I just don’t see him as a game changer for a team that sorely needs one.


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[mth123]

I’ve thought about this and agree on Marte but disagree on CES. I think CES should start out next season as the Reds’ presumptive first baseman.

Marte is 22, shows signs of immaturity, erratic defensively, makes mistakes. Arguably was rushed through the minors. I think he can benefit from AAA and should be there right now, frankly.

CES will be 25 this winter. He wasn’t rushed. He destroyed minor league pitching. He has - and likely will always have - K/BB discipline issues. But I don’t think AAA will solve that. I think it’s just something he’ll have to work on every day of his career.

I’d keep a good backup like France just in case. And I would not hit CES third in the lineup. Never quite got that decision.

Espinal can get heavy use as a utility player. He can even substitute in the OF, he has already. Utility is his best spot.

So I’m on with Friedl CF, McLain 2B, EDLC SS, Babe Ruth RF, Stephenson C, Steer LF, Candy DH, CES 1B, India 3B.

India bats ninth to provide a “second lead off hitter”. Against LHP they might switch India to leadoff and Friedl lower down.

This could work as well. We're just splitting hairs. I think a defensive IF of McLain, EDLC and Espinal would be the best defensive IF they've had since Phillips, Cozart and Rolen and upgrading the defense is as much of a must as upgrading the offense IMO. As far as a back-up for CES goes, I think Fraley serves that purpose. He can go to LF and Steer can move to 1B.

I'd be open to keeping Amed Rosario for cheap as a utility player. $2 Million max.

[wlf WV]

Marte has just succumbed to the diseases that are raging through the organization.

[Mitri]

Marte has just succumbed to the diseases that are raging through the organization.

The primary one being the group of people who dedided to trade one of the best Reds pitchers of a generation for him.

[cumberlandreds]

Marte,IMO gives a "I don't give a darn attitude" and it shows in his play.