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Thread: So, does the manager matter or not?

  1. #1
    Member RedsFanInMS's Avatar
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    So, does the manager matter or not?

    I've been told on here by countless members in today's game ran by analytical nerds that the manager doesn't matter. Well, our boy Nick Krall pretty much said that it does in his press conference. He stated that the Reds should've been better, needs improved defense and baserunning, and that there was philosophical differences between upper management and Bell. I've been told Bell affected nothing and his opinion mattered none. What's the answer here?

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    My answer hasn't changed since the last time you started a thread asking this question.

    No, the manager doesn't really matter.

    Go look at the Brewers and the Guardians who both lost guys that are considered a couple of the best managers in the league, and both have had better years with guys with zero experience.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    I've been told on here by countless members in today's game ran by analytical nerds that the manager doesn't matter. Well, our boy Nick Krall pretty much said that it does in his press conference. He stated that the Reds should've been better, needs improved defense and baserunning, and that there was philosophical differences between upper management and Bell. I've been told Bell affected nothing and his opinion mattered none. What's the answer here?
    IMO, they had terrible defense and baserunning because they have bad or not ready players on the big-league team. Krall gets and picks the players. Stock the roster with a bunch of third basemen (Candy, Steer, Marte, India, CES ...) and then try to fill all the positions with them and you'll end up with bad defense. IMO, that is a player selection issue (Krall's job). Guys should know how to run the bases and where to throw the ball before they make it out of AA. I don't think that's on the Manager so much. Krall put the team together, of course he's going to shift the blame to Bell. I'd bet that the "philosophical differences" were all about Bell asking for better players and Krall telling him that they weren't going to spend any money.

    I'm OK with Bell being gone. I never liked the hire from the beginning, but Krall talking about Accountability is hilarious. When is he going to be held accountable for the sloppy team with players who don't fit their roles and his organization not teaching them how to play long before they reached the big leagues. My objection to firing Bell has always been because I think it's a scapegoating move and not really an attempt to improve the team.

    I won't miss Bell, but this isn't solving any problem IMO.
    Last edited by mth123; 09-24-2024 at 09:45 AM.
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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    I dunno… I’ve always subscribed to the philosophy that most managers have something that they can fix- whether it’s team morale, lineup construction, cracking down on fundamentals, whatever… They get the job, they fix the things they’re able to fix, and the other stuff doesn’t get fixed till the next guy comes in. By which time you just have to hope that the stuff the first guy fixed doesn’t decay.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Managers matter.... they just don't matter like Earl Weaver mattered, that's the biggest disconnect I see on RZ, it's not 1985 anymore, Styxx still sucks like it was 1985, but managers are no longer the diggity in the clubhouse GM's matter because they get the players that make managers matter, the players matter because they need to execute and follow the manager's lead. None of the above happened at all in Cincinnati in 2024

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    I've been told on here by countless members in today's game ran by analytical nerds that the manager doesn't matter. Well, our boy Nick Krall pretty much said that it does in his press conference. He stated that the Reds should've been better, needs improved defense and baserunning, and that there was philosophical differences between upper management and Bell. I've been told Bell affected nothing and his opinion mattered none. What's the answer here?
    I subscribe to the theory that the manager does matter, greatly. He is with the players daily for most of the year, so I believe a team follows his leadership abilities and his demeanor.

    I think it’s a fine line between being a players coach and a disciplinarian. Yes a manager should have his players backs, but he should also have no problem holding his players accountable and yes, occasionally administering tough love when needed. That doesn’t mean he has to scream at them or belittle them, but like the old saying says, actions speak louder than words anyway.

    Yes a manager doesn’t have as much power/say as they used to have, but he does have enough say to make a difference, IMO.


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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFanInMS View Post
    I've been told on here by countless members in today's game ran by analytical nerds that the manager doesn't matter. Well, our boy Nick Krall pretty much said that it does in his press conference. He stated that the Reds should've been better, needs improved defense and baserunning, and that there was philosophical differences between upper management and Bell. I've been told Bell affected nothing and his opinion mattered none. What's the answer here?
    It's almost as if people on a message board don't know all of the inner workings of an MLB team. If the manager doesn't matter then they would've kept Bell instead of having to pay two managers in 2025/26.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    My answer hasn't changed since the last time you started a thread asking this question.

    No, the manager doesn't really matter.

    Go look at the Brewers and the Guardians who both lost guys that are considered a couple of the best managers in the league, and both have had better years with guys with zero experience.
    Maybe they got better managers? Just a thought

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    I don't think the things that a manager does that fans see on a regular basis matter all that much....batting order is only really effected under extreme conditions, pitching change decision typically even out over time, etc.

    Where I think a manager does matter is in what the fans don't see, and it is a lot of the philosophical items, how is the clubhouse managed, how are player egos managed, how much structure do players have behind the scenes, is there alignment and agreement in team/player goals, etc. From that perspective I think that Nick Krall has some valid points, but the concern I think fans should have is how were they not aware of these philosophical differences before they handed out that extension? Something just seems off here, and it feels more like Bell is the fall guy than anything else, despite the fact that the Reds clearly have issues with baseball fundamentals. Sometimes the changing of the manager is the easy way to sell optimism to the fans without having to add a lot of talent to the roster.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    It's almost as if people on a message board don't know all of the inner workings of an MLB team. If the manager doesn't matter then they would've kept Bell instead of having to pay two managers in 2025/26.
    Managers matter to the front office because they can fire them to protect their own jobs. Sacrificial lambs for the masses.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Krall isn't going to blame his roster construction, now is he?

    So it's the manager who gets tossed.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    The Rangers are under .500 this year after winning the Workd Series last year. Did Bruce Bochy forget how to manage?

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherPants View Post
    Managers matter to the front office because they can fire them to protect their own jobs. Sacrificial lambs for the masses.
    You're simplifying it too much. Managers execute the the FO's plan of action at the street level, they are the ones who pull the strings that they are given by the FO, they interface with players on the field and in the clubhouse, they matter a lot, they just are not head football coaches, which oddly enough is what people seem to think about when they think of baseball managers.

    Krall cited a "difference in philosophy" as a major reason for his decision, that essentially says to me that Bell did not like what Krall wanted to do as much as Krall wants to do... now Krall did not say what that philosophy sticking point was, but my bet is all the folks happy for Bell being gone might be surprised when they learn that Krall's "philosophy" is the thing about the Reds right now they hate the most

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    They should have asked him who’s teaching them fundamentals in the minors.

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    Re: So, does the manager matter or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by JCM11 View Post
    It's almost as if people on a message board don't know all of the inner workings of an MLB team. If the manager doesn't matter then they would've kept Bell instead of having to pay two managers in 2025/26.
    You guys must own a few timeshares between the three of you, I'm guessing? Krall fired Bell because he hopes he can get enough rubes to believe it was Bell's fault that the team sucks, and hopefully forget that Krall signed Jeimer Candelario to a $45 million contract. Anyone with half a brain can see that.
    Last edited by NachoMan; 09-24-2024 at 11:14 AM.


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