Cards are thinking about trading him. Would he cost too much?
Cards are thinking about trading him. Would he cost too much?
"I don't want to embarrass any other catcher by comparing him to Johnny Bench."
Sparky Anderson
If I were Cincinnati, would rather pay a durable Nick Martinez than Sonny Gray who will frequent the IL.
corkedbat (09-29-2024),Old school 1983 (09-30-2024),Redsfan6272 (09-29-2024),RedsFanInMS (09-30-2024),wlf WV (09-30-2024)
Umm, Sonny Gray threw 24 IP more than Nick Martinez this season, 73.2 more last season, 13.1 the year before and significantly more in every single season from 2014-17 during Martinez's first stint in the majors.Originally Posted by redsfan39
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
But Nick has been a hybrid starter and reliever. He’s thrown about 110 in that capacity and that’s what I expected this year. But he became a full time starter late, and threw 142.
BR has an “all levels” stats counts, including college, foreign, minors, majors. Gray has over 2,100 IP, Martinez over 1,700. They are within a year of each other in age. Martinez a little bigger pitcher.
I’d go with Nick because he’s going to be less expensive. Reds could sign him directly; Gray will require trading some prospects in a deal with Cards. Even with Cards eating some salary, Gray has a huge contract for two years (plus option), I don’t expect Nick to get quite that much.
That said, I doubt either will be a Red next season. I’m not sure Reds will spend much time on them, they’ll both be expensive. Reds have other needs.
Last edited by Kc61; 09-30-2024 at 08:59 AM.
wlf WV (09-30-2024)
According to MLBTR, Gray has a full no-trade clause. All the leverage is with him. Unless he opens things up for a bidding war, the Cardinals will either have to eat a significant portion of his salary to get prospects back and/or get very little in trade. If location and family were huge drivers for him, I expect him to be a Cardinal next season as he will keep a tight list of approved teams.
"The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690
Gray is from Smyrna, Tennessee. He wants to be close to home. Cincinnati is about the same distance from there as St. Louis is. He has a history with Derek Johnson. I think his desire to be in St. Louis was because he knew Cincinnati was too cheap to sign him to a good deal and St. Louis was the only other spot that fit his geographical desires. If the Reds are willing to take him at his current contract, I don't think he'd object.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
Old school 1983 (09-30-2024),Revering4Blue (09-30-2024)
Gray started 12 more games than Martinez this season, 23 more last season and 9 more the year before. Stands to reason his innings pitched would be higher.
Chip R (09-30-2024)
He started half a seasons worth of games at 16 and pitched in 42 total for 142 innings, with a WHIP just over 1.
That’s pretty dang valuable. I’m not docking him points for being able to be versatile as a swingman like that.
My comment had nothing to do with Martinez's value, only addressing the reason Gray had more innings pitched.
Sure, but more is still more, and Nick Martinez (who the Reds oughtta keep) has never pitched more IP in a season than Sonny Gray (who probably would be a quality addition). There's roughly 1,462 IP in a season a team has to cover and Sonny Gray reliably pitches more of them than Nick Martinez. The post I responded to was making the case that Sonny Gray is some shaky proposition on that front.
BTW, the Reds should trade Chase Petty for Gray...because that would be hysterical.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
CaiGuy (09-30-2024),LeatherPants (09-30-2024),Mitri (09-30-2024),Slyder (09-30-2024)
He's due 25 million in 2025, 35 million in 2026, and has a 5 million $ buyout on a 30 million team option for 2027. The Cards would have to pick up 20 million of that before I could see the Reds doing it. I'd say on a 2/40 deal it's a decent gamble as long as you're not giving up too much.
That would be a reasonable move at $40 million for Reds - but I seriously doubt Reds will do anything to pursue Sonny Gray. He’s simply going to be too expensive. They can say whatever they want but I think this is a side show, and probably Nick Martinez for next year is a side show. Reds might do a QO for Nick if Reds are convinced he’ll reject it.
wlf WV (09-30-2024)
No to Sonny. You left, stay gone.
He didn’t leave, he signed a club friendly contract and then was traded away.
He was what the club needed this year, and he’d what they need in 2025
He’s got a no trade clause in his current deal, so that’s going to be a roadblock.
Last edited by LeatherPants; 09-29-2024 at 05:11 PM.
Chip R (09-30-2024),Coopdaddy67 (09-29-2024),M2 (09-30-2024),Ron Madden (09-29-2024),wlf WV (09-30-2024)
I would guess that is the rub. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I doubt he bears a lot of ill will towards the Reds but there's going to be a new manager coming in. He may not want to walk into that kind of a situation.
Kingspoint (10-30-2024),Revering4Blue (09-30-2024)
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