Thoughts on Sonny Gray?

[cumberlandreds]

And if they didn't want to stay in the organization, why would you want them back? I think it does matter. I'm old school as everyone here knows, I miss having players who were LOYAL to organizations.

If he was traded how could he stay? I assume he did not have a no trade clause in his contract Gee whiz, I don't what else to say........

[phlbilly]

He also had a chance to come back this off-season. He chose the Cardinals over the Reds. I don’t blame him for that. I would rather sign Martinez than trade for Gray.

[Dave C]

Again, he didn’t leave as a free agent, he was traded away. He signed a discounted contract and the Reds traded him with two years left on that contract. If anyone wasn’t loyal, it was the Reds.

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Over the last two seasons he’s 20th in the majors in IP.

Should have singed him two years ago. I don't see that has relevant at his age in the context of the cost. Pitching is further along than hitting. If we have but a few penny's put them in OF bats please.

[757690]

Much rather have Max Fried. He'd be my number one target in the offseason.

Me too. And pretty much every other team. He’s going to demand more years than the Reds are wiling to give to a pitcher, let alone more money.

[Coopdaddy67]

He also had a chance to come back this off-season. He chose the Cardinals over the Reds.

We don't know what the Reds really offered.

Unless you're getting a full no-trade from the Reds, I'd be reluctant to sign with them for a second time after taking less money the first time too. Hell, I'd have been pissed off they traded me in the first place because of that and ignored their interest.

[herbdizzle]

I would offer the Cardinals Candelario and 1 back end top 10 prospect like Stafura or Philips.

[M2]

And if they didn't want to stay in the organization, why would you want them back? I think it does matter. I'm old school as everyone here knows, I miss having players who were LOYAL to organizations.

What part of "he didn't leave, he was traded" is eluding you?

Also, did this rule apply to Pete Rose?

[M2]

If I were Cincinnati, would rather pay a durable Nick Martinez than Sonny Gray who will frequent the IL.

Umm, Sonny Gray threw 24 IP more than Nick Martinez this season, 73.2 more last season, 13.1 the year before and significantly more in every single season from 2014-17 during Martinez's first stint in the majors.

[kaldaniels]

It just seems very cuckish to watch the Cardinals sign him in FA, use the hell out of him this year (as they should) and then we trade for the last 2 years on his contract which are (in my mind) surely to be a disappointment.

[backbencher]

No to Sonny. You left, stay gone.

Really sucked when Rose got 4192 as a Red, didn't it? And when Eric Davis returned.

[MikeS21]

I guess I am leery bringing Sonny Gray in for his age 35-36 years, at a huge cost, especially when I think that money could be better spent elsewhere. I am absolutely not against spending money, but I don’t think giving it to Sonny Gray is the answer. Between Sonny’s age age his injury list stints, it reeks of a ready-made excuse for the FO: “Well, we tried, but things just didn’t work out … it wasn’t our fault.” You can bet the bank that Sonny’s payroll hit will be the reason given why the FO won’t bring in veteran help next season at trade deadline time.

I also am leery because it signals that the Reds FO is focusing on the “known” and “familiar” and do not show any willingness to think outside the box. That is an alarming message to the fans who want to see an infusion of talent/coaches from outside the organization brought in.

[sdwagers]

inter division trade? Don't see it happening.

[Kc61]

Umm, Sonny Gray threw 24 IP more than Nick Martinez this season, 73.2 more last season, 13.1 the year before and significantly more in every single season from 2014-17 during Martinez's first stint in the majors.

But Nick has been a hybrid starter and reliever. He’s thrown about 110 in that capacity and that’s what I expected this year. But he became a full time starter late, and threw 142.

BR has an “all levels” stats counts, including college, foreign, minors, majors. Gray has over 2,100 IP, Martinez over 1,700. They are within a year of each other in age. Martinez a little bigger pitcher.

I’d go with Nick because he’s going to be less expensive. Reds could sign him directly; Gray will require trading some prospects in a deal with Cards. Even with Cards eating some salary, Gray has a huge contract for two years (plus option), I don’t expect Nick to get quite that much.

That said, I doubt either will be a Red next season. I’m not sure Reds will spend much time on them, they’ll both be expensive. Reds have other needs.

[MoneyInTheBank]

According to MLBTR, Gray has a full no-trade clause. All the leverage is with him. Unless he opens things up for a bidding war, the Cardinals will either have to eat a significant portion of his salary to get prospects back and/or get very little in trade. If location and family were huge drivers for him, I expect him to be a Cardinal next season as he will keep a tight list of approved teams.

[mth123]

I don't think Sonny Gray should be dismissed so quickly as many seem to be doing. I much prefer dealing for him to going with Aguiar or Spiers or some 6 ERA dude off the scrap heap that will cost $10 Million. Any one of those options will prevent the Reds from winning.

If the Reds can make the money work, either by increasing payroll or offloading somebody like Candelario, I'd be thrilled to have Gray back. The durability and age questions seem like uninformed objections. Gray has made 110 starts over the last 4 seasons for an average of 27.5 starts per year over that time. Hunter Greene made 26 this year, Andrew Abbott 25, Nick Lodolo 21, Graham Ashcraft 15, and Nick Martinez 16. Gray would be the workhorse of the staff. He's averaged 151 and a third innings with a 3.45 ERA over that time.

The Reds have a lot of guys who aren't capable of doing their jobs very well. Gray would be a guy who can. The Reds need more guys who actually perform well and they need them in all areas.