My comment had nothing to do with Martinez's value, only addressing the reason Gray had more innings pitched.Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds
My comment had nothing to do with Martinez's value, only addressing the reason Gray had more innings pitched.
Putting Julian Aguiar or Carson Spiers in the rotation on opening day would be more irresponsible. IMO, the mistake wouldn't be acquiring him, the mistake and irresponsible use of resources occurred when he was traded away for so little. If they can get him for less, fine, but this team needs players who are good. Getting Gray would move the needle IMO.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
LeatherPants (09-30-2024),UK Reds Fan (09-30-2024)
It's not a binary choice between Julian Aguilar/Carson Spiers or acquiring Sonny Gray at $32.5M per season by sending away a top 5 prospect and a top 15-20 prospect.
I'm not Anti-Gray. My questions are: Would the Cardinals even deal with the Reds? Will he be healthy (right now, he's not)? Do you actually need to use that many resources? Could those resources be used on other players to move the needle even further?
Last edited by MoneyInTheBank; 09-30-2024 at 02:51 PM.
"The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690
Good questions. If they can do better for cheaper they should. The fact that they are interested makes me think they can't.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
At the end of this article, Nightengale St. says the Reds will be “aggressively pursuing” Gray.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...p/75437739007/
The rose goes in the front, big guy.
The question isn't whether the Reds can do better than Gray. It's whether they can do better than Gray at full salary plus the prospects you offered up. It could be Petty and Jorge sent out for Gray at $20M per season. It could be Gray at full salary for a low ranked lottery ticket prospect. It could also be that the Reds would walk away if it wasn't Gray at $20M per season for that low ranked lottery ticket prospect. Or the Cardinals find other avenues to cut payroll and they rebuff the Reds' advances. If the Reds offer Martinez the QO and he accepts, maybe they walk away from the table on a Gray trade completely. It's so incredibly early in the offseason
"The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690
Sure, but more is still more, and Nick Martinez (who the Reds oughtta keep) has never pitched more IP in a season than Sonny Gray (who probably would be a quality addition). There's roughly 1,462 IP in a season a team has to cover and Sonny Gray reliably pitches more of them than Nick Martinez. The post I responded to was making the case that Sonny Gray is some shaky proposition on that front.
BTW, the Reds should trade Chase Petty for Gray...because that would be hysterical.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
CaiGuy (09-30-2024),LeatherPants (09-30-2024),Mitri (09-30-2024),Slyder (09-30-2024)
Obviously I'd rather get Martinez on a QO. I just think that ship has sailed.
The worst scenario is doing nothing and going with one of the in house suspects IMO.
All my posts are my opinion - just like yours are. If I forget to state it and you're too dense to see the obvious, look here!
Petty and Candelario for Gray.
Keep India/Steer/CES for the corners.
Should leave plenty for a big bat and some relief help.
Kingspoint (10-30-2024),mth123 (09-30-2024),UK Reds Fan (09-30-2024)
Agree 100% that they should not sit idle. I just don't think all the eggs need to be in the Sonny Gray basket.
"The fact that Casali had concussions is irrelevant" ~757690
I just don't see how it's possible that the team is able to find what they need in Free Agency.
Because there are 30 teams looking to improve themselves and the lack of hitting is the biggest need for improvement for all 30 teams, the REDS' competition for players that aren't available, and they are very few, the REDS' major improvement is going to have to come from withing.
We can wish and speculate all we want about possible players who can help the REDS, but there has to be a willing partner to trade with and then the REDS have to outbid everyone else for that "difference player" that the REDS are trying to acquire. The REDS aren't going to try to acquire anyone that every other G.M. isn't going to find out about and then they immediately will look to see if they can get in on the "difference player" and out bid not only the REDS, but the other teams also looking to improve their Offense.
How disastrous was it for the Mariners to let Kelenic, Suarez and Hernandez go during the off-season? It cost them a trip to the playoffs. They had their answers already wearing Mariners' uniforms. Had they outbid others to keep them, and then add someplace else in the lineup, then Dan Wilson wouldn't be the Manager right now. You can't miss on the players you already have in your organization. There's something wrong with your talent evaluation system when that's happening.
I can see why they gave Benson every opportunity they could.
The REDS aren't trading away Marte for anything. We'll just have to live with his results and they seemed determined to let him make his mistakes at the major league level. They also aren't giving up on Candelario after one season, believing still that he'll hit 20 homeruns in the GAB alone during a season that he can be relatively healthy. Steer isn't going anywhere as he is simply the most consistent player that the team has on it's roster. India is it's best On-Base-Percentage hitter, by far.
There is no other option in Free Agency or trades in Centerfield better than Friedl, so he and his injury-prone ways and extremely weak CenterField arm is going to stay there with Fairchild backing him up (hopefully not asked to start for long stretches).
They are hoping a new Manager will help with the fundamentals and poor base-running that led to a lot of negative runs, and while it's an organizational philosophy that needs to fix these things, a Manager can make some difference in how he lets the social order and feel in the clubhouse to create and maintain itself.
Cut down the boneheaded plays and the poor defensive fundamentals (that's going to be the most difficult part, but some of these guys will improve with experience such as Steer in LF and 1B, and Marte at 3B and McLain will get better, too), and the REDS are a playoff team with the players they currently have.
The biggest difference that can be made is still RF, making Fraley a bench player (and Benson no longer on the team, unless he's willing to be in Louisville). A bench of Fairchild, Espinal, France, Fraley and a Catcher is very good.
Improving the Bullpen through Free Agency and trades will be an easier task than improving the hitting/Defense among the Starters.
"One problem with people who have no vices is that they're pretty sure to have some annoying virtues."
Good God, no.
It's like you don't remember Luke Weaver, Mike Minor, Josh Fogg and the cast of hundreds trotted out as free agents to just provide innings over the past 20 years.
Both Jakob Junis and Graham Ashcraft are far better than those options. Julian Aguiar is too, IMO.
I love Sonny. I miss Sonny. Where have you gone , Sonny Gray? We turn our lonely, fourth place eyes to you. Hard to believe our baseball savants in the front office traded him away. Well, no, it's not hard to believe, at all.
"I’m here and I’m taking copious notes. Cuts will be made tonight. " --- The Big Lebowski
I'd be happy to have Sonny Gray, but I'm not giving up Chase Petty (plus I don't think even the Reds are looney enough to set themselves up for the reaction to that) and I doubt the Cards are panting to replace Goldschmidt with Candelario. But I certainly wouldn't take on Gray at 65 for 2 years without first offering Max Fried 100 for 4. And if Fried takes it, one of the ways you get a bat that might actually move the needle is by trading one of our starters going into 2026. 2025, focus on acquiring one reasonably decent bat, 2026, get one for one of the starters, and add as many as 3 from within: Collier, Arroyo, Stewart. Take a chance on sneaking into the playoffs in 2025 behind a first class rotation (by season's end, Greene, Fried, Lodolo, Lowder, one of Burns, Petty, or Abbott) and then put that rotation together with the best of what we have now and 5 additional bats--one to be acquired this year, one to be traded for next, Collier, Arroyo, Stewart. Starts with putting behind all the MOR thinking and taking a risk on a difference maker.
I’m not trading Petty for 2 years of a 35 year old pitcher, no matter the money. I also have the feeling that trading Candy to save money will look like when the Reds traded Geno to save money.
Hoping to change my username to 75769024
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