Classic Era HOF Nominations

[RedsBaron]

I do not believe I have enough information to comment on the two nominees whose careers were spent in the Negro League, but I will say the statistical documentation I have found on Baseball Refence.com is limited with regard to Vic Harris (10.6 career WAR) and John Donaldson (3.4 career WAR). That's obviously not their fault, as racism kept them from playing in the American or National Leagues, but I am not comfortable evaluating their careers.
I also understand that there are at least two different methods of calculating WAR, neither of which is Holy Writ, but I do find the stat to be useful. That said, as for the other nominees, their career WAR is the following:
Luis Tiant 66.0 WAR (44th all time for pitchers)
Ken Boyer 62.8 WAR (14th all time for third basemen)
Tommy John 61.5 WAR (77th all time for pitchers)
Dick Allen 58.7 WAR (23rd all time for first basemen)
Dave Parker 40.1 WAR (54th all time for right fielders)
Steve Garvey 38.0 WAR (51st all time for first basemen)

[RedsBaron]

A few weeks ago, I made a couple of posts on page 54 of the "Obituaries of Recently Deceased Major Leaguers Part 3" thread, so I won't repeat everything I posted then. Tiant would be my first pick out of the current nominees. He has the highest career WAR of the group, had a very good peak with two ERA titles (a 1.60 and a 191), and 4 20-win season enroute to a career mark of 229-172. He has a higher career WAR than many, many pitchers who are already in the HOF, including his contemporaries Jim Bunning and Catfish Hunter.

[RedsBaron]

Ken Boyer is my second pick. He has the second highest WAR of the group. He had an elite nine year stretch from 1956 through 1964 of seasons with WAR as follows: 6.4, 3.6, 5.9, 7.4, 6.8, 8.0, 5.6, 5.2 and 6.1. He won the 1964 MVP award and five Gold Gloves and lead the NL in RBI in 1964. Graig Nettles in the only third baseman in MLPB history with a higher career WAR, 67.9, who is not in the HOF. Being the 14th best third baseman in nearly 150 years of MLB history is a Hall of Famer to me.

[RedsBaron]

Tommy John is an interesting candidate. His 61.5 career WAR is higher than at least ten other pitchers who are in the HOF: McGinnity, Welch, Spaulding, Ford, Koufax, Grimes, Rixey, Hoyt, Dean and Lemon. Now John was not nearly as great as most of those other pitchers at his peak: Taking Koufax or Ford at their peak over John would be the easiest decision in the history of decisions. Still, he was very good. 288-231 record, 3.34 ERA (Tiant had 3.30), 111 ERA+, a post season mark of 6-3 2.65 ERA.

[RedsBaron]

Peak Dick Allen was very, very good: 2 HR titles, lead league in RBI once, in OBP twice, in slugging three times. There are a lot of first basemen in the HOF with a lower career WAR than Allen: McGwire, Hernandez, Terry, Greenberg, Ortiz, Sisler, Perez, Cepeda, McGriff, Hodges.

[RedsBaron]

Dave Parker's career WAR of 40.1 is only 54th all time for right fielders. The Cobra was great at his peak, with two batting titles and two slugging titles with the Pirates and a RBI crown with the Reds. However, that career WAR is lower than the career WAR of a lot of other right fielders not in the Hall, including Dwight Evans, Reggie Smith, Sammy Sosa (yes, I know why Sosa and why Mark McGwire are not in the HOF), Bobby Bonds, Gary Sheffield (see comment on Sosa), Jack Clark, Rocky Colavito and Rusty Staub. It's a shame, but there is basically a big donut in the middle of Parker's career, 1981-83, when he would have been expected to be in his prime where he was a ghost of himself, before he went to the Reds in 1984. Had he had the production one would expect in 1981-83, he may already be in the Hall.

[RedsBaron]

Steve Garvey was a very good player, but 38.0 WAR is quite low for a first baseman HOF candidate, lower than the following first basemen who have been HOF eligible and have not yet been inducted: John Olerud, Jason Giambi, Will Clark, Mark Texeira, Norm Cash, Dolph Camilli, Don Mattingly, Mark Grace, Bill White, Boog Powell and George Scott.

[Lex2020]

Whether you like John or not, his career is remarkably similar to Jim Kaat who was recently inducted. They even had most of the careers span the same seasons. I'm indifferent on Kaat, and I guess inducting one marginal player is not a good reason for opening the flood gates for a bunch more. I don't hear anyone saying we need more Harold Baines's.

I remember Tiant as a remarkably effective pitcher for a long time. Sure his delivery was quirky, but he had results. He tossed a shutout against the Big Red Machine in Game 1 of the 75 series. Of course he has a lot of other accolades that gets him serious consideration. My earliest memories of baseball was in the 70's when I was a kid and I remember them now as a golden age for pitchers. Tiant clearly earned a place on that list.

Parker was one of the most feared hitters in the league for a while. .290 AVG/339 HR and some Gold Gloves. His peak performance lasted long enough to give him the nod, especially after considering the way he rejuvenated it when he was in his 30's with the Reds. He played at a HOF level for long enough-check that box.

Dick Allen has a strong case, but I don't remember too much from him before the MVP in 72 with the Sox. His stats were about on par with Parker, but he hit about the same HR's in fewer seasons. No surprise his SLG was higher., so was his OBP. 7X All Star/ROY/MVP makes a strong case.

I agree with some others on Concepcion and Murphy, but they weren't on the orginal poster's list. Hopefully we'll see them in there soon.

[foster15]

Whether you like John or not, his career is remarkably similar to Jim Kaat who was recently inducted. They even had most of the careers span the same seasons. I'm indifferent on Kaat, and I guess inducting one marginal player is not a good reason for opening the flood gates for a bunch more. I don't hear anyone saying we need more Harold Baines's.

I remember Tiant as a remarkably effective pitcher for a long time. Sure his delivery was quirky, but he had results. He tossed a shutout against the Big Red Machine in Game 1 of the 75 series. Of course he has a lot of other accolades that gets him serious consideration. My earliest memories of baseball was in the 70's when I was a kid and I remember them now as a golden age for pitchers. Tiant clearly earned a place on that list.

Parker was one of the most feared hitters in the league for a while. .290 AVG/339 HR and some Gold Gloves. His peak performance lasted long enough to give him the nod, especially after considering the way he rejuvenated it when he was in his 30's with the Reds. He played at a HOF level for long enough-check that box.

Dick Allen has a strong case, but I don't remember too much from him before the MVP in 72 with the Sox. His stats were about on par with Parker, but he hit about the same HR's in fewer seasons. No surprise his SLG was higher., so was his OBP. 7X All Star/ROY/MVP makes a strong case.

I agree with some others on Concepcion and Murphy, but they weren't on the orginal poster's list. Hopefully we'll see them in there soon.

Dave Parker and Dick Allen were left out of the hall of fame because of voters personal feelings toward them for their personality (Allen) or for doing something they deemed worthy of keeping him out for (Parker).

How many multi-MVP winners were left out of the HOF? Well Parker only won one but Hal McCoy admitted he voted Willie McGee in 1985 over Parker because he was disgusted when Parker admitted to having used cocaine during past seasons. Other sports writer voters did the same and it's carried over to hall of fame voting.

Dick Allen was left out because he was looked at as a trouble maker even though the reasons he's looked at that way are controversial including being the victim of Frank Thomas swinging and hitting him with a bat, getting Thomas released by the Phillies and the fans resented a white player getting released due to an incident with a black player. He was a rebel, but he was a great baseball player. I do remember an infamous photo on the cover of Sports Illustrated of Allen juggling baseballs with a cigarette in his mouth.

They both deserve in and I'm guessing Allen eventually goes as we've reached an era of baseball trying to make up to former black athletes for racial transgressions. Parkers has to do with cocaine so that doesn't fit their agenda.

[M2]

I would think that hitting Dick Allen with a baseball bat would have only achieved the undesired result of making Dick Allen angry with you.

If Allen and Tommy John make it off this ballot it will be pretty cool as they were once traded for each other.

[foster15]

I would think that hitting Dick Allen with a baseball bat would have only achieved the undesired result of making Dick Allen angry with you.

If Allen and Tommy John make it off this ballot it will be pretty cool as they were once traded for each other.

More context from wikipedia: While the Phillies prohibited Allen from telling his side of the story, there was no restriction on Thomas, who made it seem that Allen's behavior had gotten Thomas released

[M2]

More context from wikipedia: While the Phillies prohibited Allen from telling his side of the story, there was no restriction on Thomas, who made it seem that Allen's behavior had gotten Thomas released

Thomas should have been released for being washed, though he might also have been released for "we don't have enough security guards to restrain Dick Allen from turning Frank Thomas into a pudding" reasons.

[dfs]

Peak Dick Allen was very, very good: 2 HR titles, lead league in RBI once, in OBP twice, in slugging three times. There are a lot of first basemen in the HOF with a lower career WAR than Allen: McGwire, Hernandez, Terry, Greenberg, Ortiz, Sisler, Perez, Cepeda, McGriff, Hodges.

McGwire isn't in the hall. Something about steroids......

I'm comfortable leaving all these guys out. It's tough to know what it means to be a hof player these days when things like steroids and cocaine and betting are the reason folks determine their votes instead of what happened on the field. That's not meant as an endorsement of steroids or cocaine or betting FWIW.

[Roy Tucker]

Peak Dick Allen was very, very good: 2 HR titles, lead league in RBI once, in OBP twice, in slugging three times. There are a lot of first basemen in the HOF with a lower career WAR than Allen: McGwire, Hernandez, Terry, Greenberg, Ortiz, Sisler, Perez, Cepeda, McGriff, Hodges.

He’ll always be Richie Allen in my mind.

[herbdizzle]

O'Neill's a legend. He's got a hand with a ring on every finger. All of the core guys from that Yankees dynasty team - including Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada and Andy Pettitte - belong in Cooperstown. They set a standard we may not see matched again. I think they nailed the fame part so hard that a veterans committee has to let them in.

Paul Oneill is MLBs version of Robert Horry