7/15 Game Thread: Reds vs. Rockies (No Edwin)

[WMR]

I was at the game tonight. One of those games that is a true pleasure to end up winning.

[pedro]

... an avergae reliever, and we'll found out how much of an advantage the run suppressing RFK was as well in his numbers.

ANd there is no doubt, that stuff wise, Coffey has the better. In the end the guys that have long successful careers as relievers miss a lot of bats.

His Home /Road splits don't support your contention that he was being helped by RFK.

  	     AB 	H 	2B 	3B 	HR 	RBI 	BB 	HBP 	SO 	SB 	CS 	BAA 	OBP 	SLG 	OPS
vs. Left 	82	21	4	0	2	14	9	1	16	1	1	.256	.333	.378	.711
vs. Right 	132	30	8	2	2	12	16	0	18	1	0	.227	.311	.364	.674
Home 	        98	23	5	1	2	16	11	1	14	0	1	.235	.315	.367	.683
Away 	       116	28	7	1	2	10	14	0	20	2	0	.241	.323	.371	.694

[WVRedsFan]

Of course, the simple and most likely answer is he is healthy and Narron is simply choosing to play Aurilia.

I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?

[WVRedsFan]

I've had that before. Unpleasant.

Down here in West By Gawd we call that the green apple quick step.

Same difference.

No fun.

[Marc D]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan
Did Denorfia just have a walk off single?

We now see the genius that is Denorfia.

The 17 groundabll outs to SS were just to wear him out. Eventually Denofria won.

If you ever see Denofria in a fight with a bear, you better jump in and help that bear.

[pedro]

I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?

I'm as sick of seeing RA in the lineup as the next guy but the idea that Narron has cost the Reds 7 or 8 wins is ridiculous IMO.

[WVRedsFan]

I'm as sick of seeing RA in the lineup as the next guy but the idea that Narron has cost the Reds 7 or 8 wins is ridiculous IMO.

I think there's a strong case for that in all the times he put Chris Hammond out there as his first choice after the starter left. I can remember at least five times, but I don't have the time to research that. Games in which we were up and Hammond gave up two or more runs. Same can be said for the times he continued to use other pitchers who were obviously not at their best in his usual rotation. The times that he left pitchers in when it was obvious to all that they didn't have it. The way he leaves pitchers sitting on the bench and brings in his favorites constantly. His stubborness when it comes to playing the hot hand. His tendency to leave pitchers in too long. I could go on and on.

Don't get me wrong. It's wonderful that we are 4 games over .500 and playing somewhat well these days, but the opportunities we've had (which I can't remember at this late hour and my aging brain is not remembering) should have netted us a better record. And that's Ok for this year, but to think that we have committed to two more years of this really burns me up.

If you don't see where we could have 5-6-7-8 more wins just with proper handling of the pitching staff (as horrible as it is), then maybe I should check myself in to the lunatic ward. For too long, Reds fans have let Jerry off the hook for this poor bullpen. It's a lot more than that.
And no one wants Jerry and the Reds to be successful. If I'm wrong and we finish really well, i'll sit back and enjoy it just like you. But if we are to contend for championships, we need to have someone at the helm who will be able to go with the flow of the game. I don't see that.

Hide and watch.

[pedro]

I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

[WVRedsFan]

I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

Pedro, I'll yield for now for the sake of time, but keep score from now on and watch the blunders. Maybe he's no worse than the rest of the managers. I don't know for sure, but I do know that his decisions do not make sense to this old guy.

Of course, I'm not in MLB and have no experience. No, this team is not that good, but neither are the Cardinals and Astros.

[redsrule2500]

Can anyone maybe consider that Narron is a better manager than you are sitting at home posting on a message board?

I think that if he is doing this much better, with a team that is almost identicle to years past, he deserves to continue managing. Whatever he is doing - he's doing it right. It's crazy to get on his case when he has taken this team far beyond expectations. As smart as you may think you are being the Reds manager, Narron is probably better.

[WVRedsFan]

Can anyone maybe consider that Narron is a better manager than you are sitting at home posting on a message board?

I think that if he is doing this much better, with a team that is almost identicle to years past, he deserves to continue managing. Whatever he is doing - he's doing it right. It's crazy to get on his case when he has taken this team far beyond expectations. As smart as you may think you are being the Reds manager, Narron is probably better.

You are 100% correct. How dare me second guess? I should be thankful we have a manager. You never know what we've got until it's gone. Not another peep from me.

[VR]

I'll say it again. The idea that the Reds should be 55-37 but for Jerry Narron is comical. They just aren't that good.

Is he great at managing the bullpen? Not really. Has been been forced to work with lousy pitchers? Yep.

Jerry Narron has not cost this team 7 or 8 wins. The bullpen has.

git yer facts straight

Jerry Narron 0-44
He is the reason for ALL those losses
Players 48-0
The players win in spite of him. He contributed nothing.

[PuffyPig]

Everyone has the right to second guess, that's the fun in sports.

But if you find that in sports or even in business, that you continually disagree with the true professionals' descisions all the time, it's likely that you don't know as much as you think.

Because the people who have been doing for a long time and are making the big bucks to do so are likely right more often than the arm chair quarterbacks. Of course that doesn't mean they are right all the time, no one can be.But one reason why their descisions may seem wrong is because they generally have better info than we do.

Why don't they use a certain player in a game when it looks obvious to everyone that he should be? Maybe, just maybe, he's not available. We just don't know it. But his descision may well be correct under the circumstances.

A number of posters last night called out narron for not pinch hitting for Clayton and then Larue with the game on the line. I note than none of them actually offerered any idea as to who would pinch hit. lets look at what was available to narron at that time. With Fuentes pitching, who's absolutely filthy against LH hitters, the choice of Wise would not have been well, wise. Valetin is absolutely hopeless vs. LH pitching. That left EE and Castro. So, if you pinch it EE for Clayton, that means laure has to hit and you've got Castro hitting for the pitcher. EE might have been a better choice than either Clayton or Larue, but Clayton and Larue are certainly better choices than Castro, Wise and Valentin. So letting Clayton and Larue hit was the only sensible thing to do, saving EE for the pitchers spot.That's what's managing is all about, looking 3 moves ahead.

The posters who thought EE should pinch hit for Clayton/Larue would have been caught with their pants down when the pitchers spot came up.

[redsrule2500]

You are 100% correct. How dare me second guess? I should be thankful we have a manager. You never know what we've got until it's gone. Not another peep from me.

- I didn't say you have to be thankful we have a manager or that you shouldn't second guess, but way to exaggerate...

[WMR]

I know I aggravate people when I post like this, but it seems the whole Reds Nation (and I hate that term because they use it in St. Louis so much--Yuck!) can overlook Jerry Narron's obvious damning faults because the team is over .500. He plays Rich Aurilia everyday and bats him cleanup at the expense of EdE. His bullpen management borders on the ridiculous (how many flippin times did he go to Chris Hammond as his first choice out of the bullpen when fully 98% of the midwest electorate KNEW that Chris Hammond was washed up and would allow runs?). His...OK I quit, but maybe I expect too much. Maybe 4 over .500 is acceptable even though we know that we should have won about 7 or 8 more (putting us at 55-37 and in the division lead) if not for a lot of small decisions.

Jerry Narron is Texas Ranger baseball. He's never, ever won anything anywhere at anytime. He's not the future and YET we give him a two year extension so that he can do what he does.

I love the new attitude Bobby C. brought to ownership and I love the Wayne Krivsky can wheel and deal, but giving Narron a license to make this team mediocre is simply criminal.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand the love. Are we so hungry to be 4 over .500 that we ignore all of this?

I'm with you 110%. Jerry is just not that good of an on-field, in-game tactician and he gives too much value to 'perceived qualities' that cannot be quantified when filling out a line-up card or making a pitching decision.

The clearest example--but far FAR from the only--in my mind is the earlier series versus the Royals. Jerry Narron was out-managed by Buddy Bell at every turn.