Managerial search over. It's Dusty.

[KronoRed]

FAT CHANCE! But you will hear a lot of crickets chirping...

I doubt it, if Dusty gets this team a world series banner in 3 years people will be happy to be proven wrong.

Some here actually root for the Reds and not just being right

[KronoRed]

It will be interesting to see how Baker handles the Cincy media on Monday in regards questions about his handling of pitchers when he was with the Cubs.

The cincy media ask about that? more likely they ask why Baker doesn't go to the 3 man rotation, because players are wimps compared to yesteryear

[RedsManRick]

Many here like to point to Cleveland as an example of how a good franchise should be run and they're right. Regardless though, I think many here miss the point of what has made Cleveland successful. It isn't some "new school" revelation. It's the fact that they've had management continuity for the past 16 years between John Hart and Mark Shapiro which has given them the time to build a successful organization where everyone is pulling in the same direction. The idea that the Reds could could simply fire their management and hire people that are more like "those guys in cleveland" kind of misses the point IMO. Without the patience to allow them to see their plan through, Hart & Shapiro would have never been successful either. This stuff takes time.

Fair point. But the time and continuity required to execute a plan only matters if it's the right plan -- they aren't sufficient in and of themselves.

[traderumor]

Fair point. But the time and continuity required to execute a plan only matters if it's the right plan -- they aren't sufficient in and of themselves.

e.g. Dave Littlefield

[Kc61]

I'm going to go on record as saying I don't mind this one bit.

I wouldn't have hired Baker and I'm sure this portends a slew of moves that I won't agree with one iota. That said, I've spent the past seven years disagreeing with what the Reds have been doing, so this is nothing new from my perspective.

What is different about it is that Baker probably means the Reds have concerted commitment to winning over the next three seasons. Moves are going to be made. Money is going to be spent. We're going to get the kind of go-for-it effort we haven't seen since the Jr. trade. It could be a disaster, but when you've got an old school owner and an old school GM you shouldn't expect them to act like the Red Sox braintrust. I don't have any argument with most of the criticisms made here about Dusty Baker, but he's close to the top of the heap when it comes to getting your 1970s on (and you can bet Bob Castellini goes to sleep counting big red mechanical sheep).

As edabbs astutely pointed out, this is THE guy they wanted. They have followed their instincts. While those aren't my instincts, for the first time in a long time I can at least recognize this isn't some sorry half measure. The Cincinnati Reds are going after it, hard. We knew who these guys were. For all the style points you might want to deduct, the commitment is impressive. And sometimes wanting it is more than half the battle.

Haven't read the entire thread, but this one sums up my feelings. This is not business as usual for the Reds. It indicates that Castellini wants to win very soon. Dusty isn't the type you hire to build for 2015.

Smart people learn from their mistakes. Dusty has managed in the big leagues for many years and I think he's a smart person who will avoid some of his mistakes. Krivsky is very protective of his young players and I'm sure this point has been made to Dusty.

I've wanted a name manager for a long time because the Reds often hire guys who, it seems, are "just happy to be there." So I can't complain about hiring Dusty.

I like the message Castellini is sending here. No more "business as usual." Hope Cast, Kriv, and Dusty now produce some good results.

[jojo]

As for how well "a more traditional approach" will work, let's cut some of the hyperbole. It can be done with great success. Whether the Reds have the leadership and talent to do it is another matter, but it's hardly a given that traditionalists will fail.

I fail to see the hyperbole in this:

it seems clearer that the Reds are more apt to chase a more traditional approach which at least IMHO, is full of inefficiencies that many smart clubs have recognized and begun to exploit expertly.

The traditional approach can work just like the wishbone offense can in college football. More and more though, the traditional approach in baseball is being made ineffective by innovation. Can the traditional approach work? Sure. Will it have the greatest chance of working, IMHO, nope. BTW, when was the last time the Airforce academy made a bowl game?

[traderumor]

I fail to see the hyperbole in this:



The traditional approach can work just like the wishbone offense can in college football. More and more though, the traditional approach in baseball is being made ineffective by innovation. Can the traditional approach work? Sure. Will it have the greatest chance of working, IMHO, nope. BTW, when was the last time the Airforce academy made a bowl game?

Innovation? MLB is back to post WWII baseball--big markets buying whomever they want and using the rest of the league for the minors, a few upstarts every year, the powers saying its fair, station to station offensive dominated baseball, with a pitching era correction in the offing now that the steroids scandal is full blown. You can already see some speed and D styles starting to surface again. Expect the International Draft to be the next "balance" solution in the same way that the reverse order draft came about in the 60s. Oh, and one of the cruddiest eras for the Reds, with an exciting offense, a slugger, and no pitching.

[M2]

I fail to see the hyperbole in this ... The traditional approach can work just like the wishbone offense can in college football. More and more though, the traditional approach in baseball is being made ineffective by innovation. Can the traditional approach work? Sure. Will it have the greatest chance of working, IMHO, nope. BTW, when was the last time the Airforce academy made a bowl game?

Not everyone has to do exactly as you would have them do. Plus, if they all did the same thing, it would create new blind spots (which Billy Beane would only be too happy to exploit).

Can the traditional approach work? Golly, I don't know. Ask the Cardinals, Tigers, White Sox, Astros, Marlins, Angels, Giants and D-Backs, all of whom have made the World Series this century with a significant traditional bent (though some have blended traditional with new school because the world isn't black and white). Ask the Braves and Twins if the traditional approach can net you any results.

From 1997-2004, the Giants had eight straight winning campaigns, three division titles, a wild card and a World Series appearance. They averaged 92.25 wins a year during that stretch. Dusty Baker was their manager seven of those eight seasons. Can it work? Good Lord.

[pedro]

Fair point. But the time and continuity required to execute a plan only matters if it's the right plan -- they aren't sufficient in and of themselves.

Certainly. But it takes time to find that out and my belief is that 18 months is not long enough to find that out.

[mth123]

This is a chicken/egg debate. Are they good because they've been in place together that long or are they in place together that long because they're good? I tend to think its the latter and that the former doesn't make being good automatic.

[VR]

Interesting quote from Aaron Harang on the hiring.


"I think he's definitely going to get a change of attitude and get the players to play for him."

[lollipopcurve]

Interesting quote from Aaron Harang on the hiring.


"I think he's definitely going to get a change of attitude and get the players to play for him."

Interesting, from the normally quiet Harang.

[pedro]

This is a chicken/egg debate. Are they good because they've been in place together that long or are they in place together that long because they're good? I tend to think its the latter and that the former doesn't make being good automatic.

My point is that they have been able to harvest the fruit of their minor league crops because they've had pretty much the same foremen running the farm since 1991, not necessarily because they're statistically driven.

[Falls City Beer]

Interesting, from the normally quiet Harang.

I agree. I think the more and more I read the clubhouse mindset needs a reinvention.

But since I can't quantify it, I guess it doesn't matter. Because clearly a guy like Bobby Cox never squeezed blood from some of the stones he's been handed over the years.

[redsmetz]

I see I now have an "official" email from the Reds. Here's the photo, folks: