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Thread: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

  1. #121
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I guess it's lucky he plays half his games there then.
    Lucky in that if he didn't, he'd probably be out of baseball.

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  3. #122
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Small sample size aside, Joey Votto didn't exactly tear it up outside of the GABP either (.605 OPS)

    If we're going to give so much weight to his September stats we ought to at least examine them in the same manner that we do Hatteberg's.

    I'd also like to point out that Votto didn't exactly tear up Louisville either. (.859 OPS overall, .669 against LHP).

    He's a nice player but that doesn't exactly scream "future star" to me.
    My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.

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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    And Hatteberg has posted .826 and .868 OPS' respectively in his two years in Cincinnati.

    So what does Votto have on Hatteberg that he should just be handed the job? Age?
    Votto may be able to be productive outside of GABP. We know Hatteberg has not been productive on the road and most likely will not be productive this year either.

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    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

  6. #125
    Bat Flippin’ Awesome Puig Your Red's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.
    Why? Hatteberg is going to be gone after this year anyway, so don't create an opening you don't have to.

    It's not going to kill Votto to spend a few months in AAA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Why? Hatteberg is going to be gone after this year anyway, so don't create an opening you don't have to.

    It's not going to kill Votto to spend a few months in AAA.
    Scott Hatteberg isn't the missing link between the Cincinnati Reds and the playoffs. The only thing accomplished by playing him in the majors over Votto this year will be the stunting of Votto's development.

    This is the exact reason why I hated it when they picked up his option.
    Last edited by edabbs44; 03-08-2008 at 11:49 PM.

  8. #127
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    My view of the situation is this: either give him the job or, if you don't think he is going to be a productive major leaguer, trade him. The guy has proven enough in the minors to suggest that he should not be there anymore. If you are going to screw around and not give him time, then deal him and get some more pitching while he still has value.
    I also agree with this. The future is now for Joey Votto IMO. The Reds held him back last year, he should have been up in July when the Reds were clearly going no where. That would have given him an additional 150-200 major league atbats and better prepared him for a full major league season. I want this guy to be the Opening Day 1B. I think if given the opportunity, Votto will hit 20-25 homeruns and 35 doubles with an OBP in the .375 area.

  9. #128
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  10. #129
    Someday Never Comes mth123's Avatar
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.
    Valid point.

    I would not expect them to declare Votto a starter and to degrade Hatte, but Marty insinuated that Hatte should clearly be the starter and that is what started all of this.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Lucky in that if he didn't, he'd probably be out of baseball.
    PuffyPig's got it right.

    You're thinking too much. Baseball's an easier game than you're trying to make it.

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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro View Post
    Whether Votto is the future or not, the Reds should never say so when the guy you want to flip (hatteberg) is hitting +.400. And if that is the way it is in April I think the reds should ride it out because maybe they can flip Hatteberg for something and then slide Votto in. The Reds aren't in such good shape that they should just dump guys with value. That's what I think anyway.
    I can't see Hatteberg providing enough value (both on the field and in trade) that it would be worth suppressing the growth of one of the best prospects in the organization, even in a best case scenario.

    Plus, I'm sure Votto wouldn't be too enthusiastic being sent to the minors again. Don't think these guys don't remember that when it comes time to sign contracts and give up one or 2 years of FA.

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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    As is typical around here, folks are very hung up on "who is the starter" and "what is the batting order" and other specifics. At this stage of the game, the Reds need to decide on 25 players. Absent a trade, I think both Hatt and Votto should make the team. Period.

    My reading of this thread is that people say -- if Votto isn't starting trade him; if Votto isn't starting send him to AAA. All this is an overreaction. There are a lot of at bats to go around over the course of 162 games and Votto will get plenty of chances this year, whether or not he starts on opening day. Same with Hatte.

    It's a good thing that the Reds have these two live bats on the team. Obviously, Votto is the future and this will be a transitional season at that position. For Votto to go north with the big club after spring training is a big step for him, whether or not he's in the lineup opening day.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-09-2008 at 11:14 AM.

  14. #133
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    Re: 3/8/08 Reds vs. Braves--Bruce DH'ing

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I can't see Hatteberg providing enough value (both on the field and in trade) that it would be worth suppressing the growth of one of the best prospects in the organization, even in a best case scenario.

    Plus, I'm sure Votto wouldn't be too enthusiastic being sent to the minors again. Don't think these guys don't remember that when it comes time to sign contracts and give up one or 2 years of FA.
    Votto's not good enough that reds should even care. He's not going to be the full time first baseman in 3-4 years anyway.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun


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