3/9/08 vs Deviless Rays

[Patrick Bateman]

i am - he's a bundle of nerves.. or something.

Why? Fogg has sucked his entire life. He sucked as a Pirate, he sucked as a Rockie, and he'll suck as a Red.

Belisle on the other hand showed real signs of breakout last season. If you dig deeper than ERA, you'll see a guy that demonstrated very good control last year, while missing enough bats to survive as a starter. A 2.91 K/BB is nothing to sneeze at, and really that's the telling stat with Belisle. There's a reason why basically every single projection system has Belisle posting an ERA below 5.00 as a starter this season. Add in the fact that he's younger and may actually have a future here, and you have a guy that is lightyears ahead of Fogg in being able to contribute to this organziation.

[Matt700wlw]

Much better that inning.

[Patrick Bateman]

Today it is...and yes, he's too hittable.

Okay, seriously... 1 day in spring training is going to define his ability to throw strikes? After he showed a strong ability to do so over 30 starts last season?

[Screwball]

i am - he's a bundle of nerves.. or something.

Belisle won't be in contention for any Cy Youngs anytime soon, but give me the guy who can actually miss a bat or six, and doesn't walk way too many guys. If you're unhappy with Belisle, then Josh Fogg ought to make you wanna until the cows come home.

Also, I think too much is being made out of Belisle's ST thus far. This is a guy who's spot in the rotation is all but etched in stone, and I gotta believe he's using this as a tune-up in preparation for the season - as he should. Keep in mind Harang got lit up last year in ST, and has gotten knocked around already this year. But I have full confidence once the season starts he'll bring his A game, and the same goes for Belisle.

[M2]

Okay, seriously... 1 day in spring training is going to define his ability to throw strikes? After he showed a strong ability to do so over 30 starts last season?

What? You don't subscribe to the amnesiac method of talent assessment?

[Matt700wlw]

Keep in mind Harang got lit up last year in ST, and has gotten knocked around already this year. But I have full confidence once the season starts he'll bring his A game, and the same goes for Belisle.

Harang has a track record of success...Belisle doesn't.

I don't think any of us are worried about Harang.

[M2]

Keep in mind Harang got lit up last year in ST

And I recall a lot of some seriously ridiculous handwringing over it.

[TRF]

So, Harang had that track record in his second ST as a starter for the Reds.

I wasn't aware of that.

[Matt700wlw]

Belisle's day is done...Fogg's day begins.

[Screwball]

Harang has a track record of success...Belisle doesn't.

I don't think any of us are worried about Harang.

I get that, but my point is even very, very good pitchers get knocked around in ST largely because it's nothing more than glorified practice for those who are pretty much guaranteed to be in the rotation to start the season. IMO, Belisle isn't auditioning here - he's just getting ready for the season. There's a pretty big difference.

[Matt700wlw]

IMO, Belisle isn't auditioning here

He should be.

[Matt700wlw]

...and there's the arm of Jay Bruce to nail the runner!

[TRF]

He should be.

No, actually he shouldn't. What he needs to do is work out his kinks, and figure out a few things. He needs reps. He needs to stretch out his arm. He does NOT need to look over his shoulder at Affeldt or Fogg, neither of whom are very good.

[Matt700wlw]

Troy Percival's a Ray? I missed that...

[M2]

He should be.

Why? Because the Reds should run their club like a chicken with its head cut off?

Getting a pitcher to 300 IP and then bailing before you can reap the benefits would be horrific management. FWIW, Belisle's at where Harang was prior to the 2005 season. While I don't expect Belisle to be as good, he should be in line for better.