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Thread: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

  1. #61
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Bray with a 1-2-3 inning with two groundouts and a flyout.


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  3. #62
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    This is the 3rd year in row Bailey has started slow. It is like deadarm. I forgot about that before spring training and sometimes you pay in prediction(though I didn't have Bailey making the rotation, but performing better than this). I figure as he gets older and more mature, he will get going faster, but not yet obviously.

    We saw the same thing in 2006 and he was very up and down to June when he took off(matter of fact, there is a big thread from the minors forum from the period crying about Bailey in late May).

    Similiarly last year he started slow, but never got going(at least to the end of the season) likely/official reason was due to a groin tear.

    He may not tear up AAA right away either. K/9 is the key IMO if he will at some point.

  4. #63
    Member reds44's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Spin Master.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

  5. #64
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Homer Bailey struggles mightily but it's deadarm. Johnny Cueto dominates and it's luck.

    Okay.

  6. #65
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan View Post
    I wonder if his problem is between his ears primarily and what or who can correct that other than Homer and experience.

    Just because he's not a successful major league pitcher yet doesn't necessarly mean he's a head case. People like to throw that word around a lot with kids who aren't successful right out the gate. How many 21-22 year old kids are successful big league starters? You could probably name them on the fingers of one hand. He may not be successful for another couple or three years. And he may not be an ace either. His ceiling may be as a #3 starter and if that's the best he's going to be, that's fine because the Reds haven't been able to develop those pitchers much less aces or #2 starters.

    I've said before, Cueto and Volquez may be the best things that have happened to Homer. Now they have the expectations on them. They are the big stories and the saviors. There aren't going to be any Homer watches now. Wayne's not going to be asked 100 times a day when Homer's getting called up. Homer can pitch in AAA without all that pressure on him. That's not to say he shouldn't buckle down and do his very best but he can stay within himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  7. #66
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Code:
    Cincinnati AB R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG 
    Patterson, CF 3 0 1 1 0 0 0 .438 
      Hopper, CF 2 1 1 0 0 0 1 .281 
    Freel, LF 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 .324 
      Anderson, Drew T., LF 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 .406 
    Bruce, RF 3 0 0 0 0 2 2 .286 
      Gil, RF 2 1 1 2 0 1 0 .429 
    Votto, DH 4 0 0 0 1 0 2 .152 
    Hatteberg, 1B 3 1 1 0 0 0 0 .355 
      Rios, 1B 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 .100 
    Keppinger, SS 3 0 3 1 0 0 0 .361 
      Rosales, SS 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 .321 
    Cabrera, 2B 3 0 0 0 0 1 3 .314 
      Phillips, A, 2B 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 .242 
    Bako, C 1 1 0 0 1 1 1 .350 
      Hanigan, C 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 .200 
    Hairston, 3B 2 1 1 0 0 0 0 .556 
      a-Green, PH-3B 2 0 1 1 0 0 0 .370 
    Totals 38 6 11 5 2 8 13   
    
    a-Popped out for Hairston in the 7th.  
    
    BATTING
    2B: Hairston (1, Lester), Hatteberg (2, Lester), Hopper (1, Aardsma), Phillips, A (2, Lopez).
    HR: Gil (2, 7th inning off Aardsma, 1 on, 2 out).
    TB: Patterson; Hopper 2; Freel; Gil 4; Hatteberg 2; Keppinger 3; Phillips, A 2; Hairston 2; Green.
    RBI: Patterson (2), Keppinger (2), Gil 2 (5), Green (8).
    2-out RBI: Gil 2; Green.
    Runners left in scoring position, 2 out: Bako; Votto.
    Team LOB: 7.
    
    BASERUNNING
    SB: Keppinger (1, 2nd base off Lester/Varitek).
    
    FIELDING
    E: Bako (4, throw).
    
     
       Boston AB R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG 
    Lugo, SS 3 1 2 0 0 1 0 .333 
      1-Lowrie, PR-SS 2 1 0 0 0 1 0 .081 
    Youkilis, 1B 2 1 1 2 1 0 0 .258 
      2-Carter, PR-1B 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 .344 
    Ortiz, DH 3 1 1 0 0 1 3 .308 
      a-Pinckney, A, PH-DH 2 1 1 1 0 0 0 .500 
    Ramirez, LF 2 0 0 0 0 1 3 .321 
      Thurston, LF-2B 3 2 3 1 0 0 0 .400 
      5-Lara, PR-2B 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 
    Lowell, 3B 1 0 1 2 0 0 0 .281 
      3-Ginter, PR-3B 2 1 1 1 0 0 1 .286 
      6-Suarez, PR-3B 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 
    Drew, RF 3 0 3 2 0 0 0 .360 
      4-Engel, PR-CF 2 2 2 2 0 0 0 .750 
    Varitek, C 3 1 1 3 0 0 3 .304 
      Kottaras, G, C 2 0 0 0 0 1 2 .357 
    Pedroia, 2B 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 .161 
      Nava, LF 2 0 1 1 0 0 1 .500 
    Moss, CF-RF 3 2 1 1 1 0 1 .294 
      Pritz, RF 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 .000 
    Totals 41 16 18 16 2 5 15   
    
    a-Homered for Ortiz in the 6th. 
    1-Ran for Lugo in the 4th. 2-Ran for Youkilis in the 4th. 3-Ran for Lowell in the 4th. 4-Ran for Drew in the 4th. 5-Ran for Thurston in the 8th. 6-Ran for Ginter in the 8th.  
    
    BATTING
    2B: Lugo (1, Bailey), Ortiz (4, Bailey), Youkilis (1, Shearn), Ginter (2, Brower), Engel (1, Brower).
    3B: Engel (1, Burton).
    HR: Moss (2, 2nd inning off Bailey, 0 on, 1 out), Varitek (3, 4th inning off Shearn, 2 on, 2 out), Pinckney, A (1, 6th inning off Burton, 0 on, 0 out).
    TB: Lugo 3; Youkilis 2; Ortiz 2; Pinckney, A 4; Thurston 3; Lowell; Ginter 2; Drew 3; Engel 5; Varitek 4; Nava; Moss 4.
    RBI: Lowell 2 (5), Drew 2 (5), Moss (6), Youkilis 2 (4), Thurston (2), Varitek 3 (7), Pinckney, A (1), Engel 2 (2), Nava (1), Ginter (3).
    2-out RBI: Lowell; Drew 2; Thurston; Varitek 3; Nava.
    Runners left in scoring position, 2 out: Varitek; Pritz.
    SF: Lowell.
    Team LOB: 5.
    
     
     
      
    Cincinnati IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA 
    Bailey (L, 0-2) 3.1 7 6 6 2 3 1 8.44 
    Shearn  0.2 4 5 5 0 0 1 11.12 
    Bray  1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 
    Burton  1.0 4 3 3 0 1 1 9.00 
    Sauerbeck  1.0 0 0 0 0 1 0 20.25 
    Brower  1.0 3 2 2 0 0 0 13.50 
       Boston IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA 
    Lester (W, 1-0) 4.0 4 3 3 1 3 0 6.00 
    Corey  1.2 3 0 0 0 1 0 1.17 
    Aardsma  1.0 2 2 2 1 1 1 5.40 
    Lopez  1.1 2 1 1 0 1 0 2.84 
    Hansen  1.0 0 0 0 0 2 0 11.12 
     
    
    WP: Lester 2.
    HBP: Lowell (by Shearn).
    Ground outs-fly outs: Bailey 2-5, Shearn 2-0, Bray 2-1, Burton 1-1, Sauerbeck 1-1, Brower 1-2, Lester 3-6, Corey 1-3, Aardsma 0-2, Lopez 2-1, Hansen 0-1.
    Batters faced: Bailey 19, Shearn 7, Bray 3, Burton 7, Sauerbeck 3, Brower 6, Lester 17, Corey 8, Aardsma 6, Lopez 6, Hansen 3.
    Inherited runners-scored: Shearn 2-2, Aardsma 1-0, Lopez 1-0.
    Umpires: HP: Chuck Meriwether. 1B: Tim Tschida. 2B: Jeff Kellogg. 3B: Brian O'Nora.
    Weather: 81 degrees, sunny.
    Wind: 15 mph, R to L.
    T: 3:22.
    Att: 7,762.

  8. #67
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Brower is done

  9. #68
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Brower is done
    Aside from Burton, who could you *not* say that about on today's pitching roll?
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  10. #69
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Bako sure has had a rough camp for defensively for a "catch & throw" guy
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #70
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Just because he's not a successful major league pitcher yet doesn't necessarly mean he's a head case. People like to throw that word around a lot with kids who aren't successful right out the gate. How many 21-22 year old kids are successful big league starters? You could probably name them on the fingers of one hand. He may not be successful for another couple or three years. And he may not be an ace either. His ceiling may be as a #3 starter and if that's the best he's going to be, that's fine because the Reds haven't been able to develop those pitchers much less aces or #2 starters.

    I've said before, Cueto and Volquez may be the best things that have happened to Homer. Now they have the expectations on them. They are the big stories and the saviors. There aren't going to be any Homer watches now. Wayne's not going to be asked 100 times a day when Homer's getting called up. Homer can pitch in AAA without all that pressure on him. That's not to say he shouldn't buckle down and do his very best but he can stay within himself.
    Good points all of them. Each of those can contribute to bringing him forward in the future.

    I don't mean a headcase as in trouble maker. I am thinking more along the lines of your last line, Bailey to focus ie "buckle down" and especially "stay within himself". I think the guy might be trying to hard to get and to stay in the majors, over throwing etc.

  12. #71
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Brower is done
    He was done long before today.

  13. #72
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan View Post
    I don't mean a headcase as in trouble maker. I am thinking more along the lines of your last line, Bailey to focus ie "buckle down" and especially "stay within himself". I think the guy might be trying to hard to get and to stay in the majors, over throwing etc.

    I didn't think you did. But we fans tend to put that label on someone with talent like his that doesn't succeed right away. "He's got all the talent but he just can't put it together. He's got an attitude; he doesn't try hard enough; he doesn't listen to the coaches; he's on drugs; etc." In some cases, those criticisms may be true. People expected Homer to come up and while not dominate, at least be a solid starter - perhaps a #2 starter just waiting to replace Harang as the ace. He didn't meet those expectations and now we have Volquez and Cueto and all of a sudden Homer's dog meat. It's no disgrace that a 22 year old kid has to repeat AAA. We may find out a month into the season that Volquez and/or Cueto may not be ready for prime time and maybe Homer will have put things together in AAA and be ready for the Show this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right

  14. #73
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Aside from Burton, who could you *not* say that about on today's pitching roll?
    I see no reason to exclude Burton.

    Sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a forgotten man.
    I'm not a system player. I am a system.

  15. #74
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I see no reason to exclude Burton.

    Sounds like he's well on his way to becoming a forgotten man.
    Fair enough. But why on earth would they throw away only the second hard-thrower in an otherwise still-atrocious bullpen?

    (Maybe Volquez still gets a bullpen demotion, however).
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  16. #75
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: 3/15/08 - Reds vs Red Sox

    Bailey has issues. They're mostly just command-related.

    The iceberg didn't kill passengers on the Titantic. It was the lack of lifeboats....

    Command is the major league pitcher's lifeboat. Homer needs more lifeboats.

    Simple really...
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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