Off the top of my head, wasn't the Cordero signing criticized?Originally Posted by M2
Off the top of my head, wasn't the Cordero signing criticized?
A few people griped that the Reds overpaid, but it was hardly a national outcry.
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
Yeah, by the numbers crowd because it violated their inflexible budget management rules. Outside of that small circle, the move was mostly greeted with surprise (that the Reds spent some coin) and compliments (Cordero's a quality closer and the Reds really needed one of those).
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I think Lohse for Zach Ward was criticized too.
It just seemed like whenever you read anything about Krvisky it was not positive. Not as much specific moves, but moreso the general direction of the organization.
Maybe he irritated the media with his secrecy. We know if the media wants to knock you they will and using "baseball people I have talked too" is an easy way to get that point across, without having to expose those sources.
I guess that's a view through one kind of filter............
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
In the general media? Hardly. It barely drew any notice. Most people didn't even know who Zach Ward was, including "baseball people."
It was an anonymous prospect for a pitcher who carried low expectations on his shoulders. As best as I can remember the national reaction to the deal, it was "Well, that happened."
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I believe that trade was blasted on this board when it went down.
Go BLUE!!!
I don't think he was anyone's favorite person, in the media or in the baseball community; but there's just a reflexive negative reaction to a GM being fired after barely two years when the general perception is that he signed onto a rebuilding job.
Reading comprehension is not just an ability, it's a choice
I honestly believe that one of the comments that was made in the press yesterday had a lot more to do with this than most realize. I can't remember where I read it but someone stated that Krivs and Jocketty were not getting along real well. I can imagine Jocketty stating..."I am going to have to move on in the best interest of the team..." and Cast stopping him by putting him in power. Jocketty might have been surprised Tuesday with the phone call but I would bet the surprise was only that it was done so quickly. I would bet my 401K that he and Cast have had some interesting conversations about Krivs mistakes.
I also wouldn't be surprised if all of these contracts being eaten had something to do with it. Yesterday I speculated that and mentioned that Krivs probably came to Bob and stated that another one needed to be eaten...Valentin would be my bet.
Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.
What? Stats commentators suddenly outnumber the seamheads employed, or formerly employed, in the game and the traditional media (TV, radio, newspapers, magazines)?
Don't get me wrong, the Internet is a fabulous medium. It allows tails to wag dogs, and that can be a good thing. Yet, as someone who makes his cash in online media, I can tell you objects on the Internet often appear larger than they really are.
Comparatively speaking, the numbers crowd is a small circle in the game of baseball. It's a vocal crowd and one that should be listened to as it's often making a lot of sense, but let's not conflate what goes on in that echo chamber with the general opinion of people throughout the game.
As for the inflexible budget management rules, yeah, it's the worst thing that's come out of "Moneyball" (mind you, unintentionally so of the part of the author and the A's front office that was the subject of the book). Now you've got people dedicated to truisms rather than looking at a given situation and trying to identify opportunities. The Reds still have a middle of the road budget (18th overall), up only $5.2M from last season. The Reds had the space and availability to sign a closer like Cordero. Whether Cordero was worth the contract is a separate (and legitimate) question, but there was no budgetary impediment preventing the Reds from making that deal. In fact, spending on the closer and getting a starter making near the minimum via trade (Volquez) so far has turned out to be an astute deployment of resources.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
The win-loss record seems to agree with me that Wayne hasn't increased the overall ML talent base. In the end, isn't the goal to win games?
DanO had more wins in each of his two seasons than Wayne did last year.
Notice, I said ML talent. I didn't say potential, because potential is nebulous to measure.
Again, while Wayne had some good pickups, he shot himself in the foot with many bad ones, and the W-L showed that. He also did a generally poor job with his payflex money.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
Wayne turned a team that was a marginal contender (2006) into a 72 win team last year. How did the team lose wins if the talent level was increasing?
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
That's not only a flawed standard to apply when critiquing payroll decisions, it really doesn't speak to the argument against the signing made by the "numbers" guys.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
And it's not a whole lot better now. He was handed a solid everyday lineup.
He was handed Harang. He was handed Cueto, EdE, Homer, and Votto. Now granted, the bullpen he inherited needed work.
When he left, he had added Keppinger, Phillips, Arroyo.. clear wins.
Volquez at this point looks like a push.. note I am not saying it is bad, just too early to call it a clear "win".
Many of his early wins like Ross that built up his reputation were Fool's gold. In fact, Arroyo might end up being Fool's gold as well.
Again, he got 80 wins in 2006, and then only 72 wins in 2007.
This team as of now is poorly constructed.
As Dusty said, there's 13 pending free agents to deal with, as well as some bad contracts.
IMO, he left the team in slightly worse condition than he recieved it in. Hopefully his two draft classes will produce something (too early to tell).
In any event, he left a mess for Walt. It's a different mess -- Walt is going to have to rebuild the position player talent, and Wayne had to rebulid the pitching staff. In summary, Wayne just shifted where the talent was, he didn't really add to the total talent. He added some good players, but that was outweighed by the bad contracts he so freely gave out.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
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