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Thread: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

  1. #991
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    I'm bringing this up, because I pretty much asked you this same question on O'Brien and on Krvisky, and now I pose this question to you about Walt Jocketty. Based on your knowledge of the FO problems, and based on what you know about Jocketty, do you think Walt Jocketty has the ability to set a positive tone in the FO, and bring in outside advisors who can assist him in areas he is weakest at: ie: scouting and development.

    From things that have been said about Krivsky, I get the impression he was not the easiest person to work for. Losing Johnny Almarez was probably the worst mistake Krivsky made - including all the bad contracts. Evidently Krivsky refused to listen to advice, and then treated his advisors as if they were clueless. I'm wondering if Walt Jocketty will listen to advice, or at least show his advisors some respect even if he chooses to go against their advice.

    And I'm wondering how the circumstances of him leaving St. Louis - his clash with Jeff Luhnow - how much should we read in to that? Luhnow seems to have actually got the Cardinal's farm system moving in a positive direction. And I think he did it with a philosophy that differed from Jocketty. That tells me Jocketty can't deal well with folks who disagree with him. Every GM needs someone who can give him a sound, opposing point of view. Can Jocketty handle that? Will he bring such a person into the FO?
    I can speak to some of this.

    First, Walt Jocketty is one of the most personable people I have ever met. Ever. He's right up there with Santa Clause. Seriously, if I had to pick a guy to come in and do damage control, pick up the pieces, has credibility and CAN get everyone on the same page I would pick Walt. Maybe not my first choice to start a franchise and all that but in this situation I would choose him.

    I think that Walt gets some incorrect blame for SOME of the issues with St. Louis farm system. It all works out in the end and I do agree with most that this area is weak for him. HOWEVER, Terry Reynolds, if he stays, has a firm grip on the Reds system and doesn't need any hand holding from Walt. If Walt lets Terry do his job then I see no problems. Walt needs to get Terry the budget necessary to move forward. Plain and simple.

    Castellini forced Browning on Wayne and Terry this year. That crap needs to stop too. Next, Eric Davis will be managing AAA. Let the Baseball people do the Baseball work Mr. C.

    Just like everyone else on this board I have heard through many people that Wayne was paranoid, difficult to work with and not forthcoming. Pretty bad combo for a position that is 90% communication. My question is: Why was he so paranoid? Makes you wonder. Maybe next go around Wayne will lighten up. I have run into Wayne MANY times. He'll talk to you but he won't say much. If he really knows you I bet you could get a full sentence. That's just who he is. Right, wrong or indifferent. I never worked for him and never did business with him so I can't validate what everyone was saying but I certainly am not calling them liars either.

    I have zero doubt that Walt will listen to his staff. I don't recall that ever being an issue. I am still pretty tight with Mike Jorgensen and John Vuch of the Cardinals. Never a bad word from those two about Walt and they were both with him a LONG time.

    The issue between Jeff Lunhow and Walt I think has more moving parts than any of us know about. I'm not entirely sure that they didn't get along or anything like that. From where I sit, I do not think that Walt appreciated having Jeff jammed down his throat and promoted ahead of other people without his consent. That would really tick me off too. I interviewed with Jeff Lunhow this winter and I have to tell you I was mightily impressed by him. The guy is flat out smart!
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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  3. #992
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Setting aside who gets credit for what, we had some young talent arrive. I think some of these posters would get just as much enjoyment out of seeing one good prospect arrive every year as they would winning a World Series.
    I think that's an ignorant statement.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    This thread is marbled with delusion. I've honestly never seen a thread so full of re-fashioned and re-wired history in my life. And that's truly saying something for Redszone.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    He didn't give DanO a fair chance, just as some are saying Wayne did not get a fair chance. DanO only served 2 years (IIRC) and was not allowed to finish his last year, just like Wayne.

    That's my point.. How come it was ok to end DanO's contract early, but when the ax fell early on Wayne it makes Cast look bad and the Reds will have a hard time attracting employees, etc.

    DanO was a casualty of a regime change...happens all the time in business, not just sports. He had some supporters on here at the time of his firing, but even they recognized this was a reality. Wayne was Bob C's guy, the one passed over previously who was now being given the chance some thought he deserved a few years earlier. He was executing on a plan that clearly had changed in BC's mind somewhere along the way. No one will argue that mistakes were made, bad contracts were offered, etc, etc, but as pointed out in the previous 66 pages of this thread, good things were done as well. In the end, while I'm not sure I believe WK should've been extended beyond this year, I don't think immediate termination was warranted either.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    In the end, while I'm not sure I believe WK should've been extended beyond this year, I don't think immediate termination was warranted either.
    This is my position too. The 2008 season is already over; might as well save the turbulence for the offseason.

  7. #996
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Hey, this is just an opinion, but the tone of this thread really needs to come down a bit. I'm pointing fingers at princeton and REDREAD.

    just sayin'.
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  8. #997
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan View Post
    Much has been discussed about Krivsky, moving forward to the present.

    REDREAD,

    Lets move away from hindsight to foresight.

    How do you suppose and anticipate that Jocketty "will improve the club"?

    What changes ?
    What moves ?
    Where will his focus for improvement be ?
    How will he accomplish them ?
    What upgrade ?
    Where will he start first?
    What kind fo W/L do you anticipate he will finish this year and next with?
    What kind of time frame will he need to accomplish what you expect him to?
    How much will it cost the investors, how much in budget terms?
    Where will he be much improved over previous GM's?
    REDREAD

    Can't believe that you ignored this and are still living in the past with Wayne.
    I want to know why I should believe we are moving forward now. I know nothing about Jocketty other than he had large budgets to work with and huge attendance vs Reds GMs, why will his policy work here and what will he do? He has had what six months or more to evaluate, when does he start?

  9. #998
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Just like everyone else on this board I have heard through many people that Wayne was paranoid, difficult to work with and not forthcoming. Pretty bad combo for a position that is 90% communication. My question is: Why was he so paranoid? Makes you wonder.
    One of the things I've noticed in my career is that for most folks in the organization, going to work is all about the day-to-day. Sure, there are some politics, but generally it's about completing tasks, scratching things off the "to do" list, meeting deadlines, and chugging right along.

    At the top, though, it's an entirely different animal. When you're at the top of an organization (or a major function in the organization), it's not so much about the day to day as it is the politics. That's where the real battles are fought.

    That's probably a large portion of what stoked any paranoia, be it real or perceived.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by 15fan View Post
    One of the things I've noticed in my career is that for most folks in the organization, going to work is all about the day-to-day. Sure, there are some politics, but generally it's about completing tasks, scratching things off the "to do" list, meeting deadlines, and chugging right along.

    At the top, though, it's an entirely different animal. When you're at the top of an organization (or a major function in the organization), it's not so much about the day to day as it is the politics. That's where the real battles are fought.

    That's probably a large portion of what stoked any paranoia, be it real or perceived.

    I don't know if the "paranoia" stuff is real or not (I'm leaning towards "not"), but most paranoid higher-ups are that way because they're in over their head.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I don't know if the "paranoia" stuff is real or not (I'm leaning towards "not"), but most paranoid higher-ups are that way because they're in over their head.
    I work at a college. Office politics is EVERYTHING.
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  12. #1001
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    He didn't give DanO a fair chance, just as some are saying Wayne did not get a fair chance. DanO only served 2 years (IIRC) and was not allowed to finish his last year, just like Wayne.
    DanO was given a fair chance by the Reds, and there was no need for a new owner to prolong the agony. It is not unusual for a new owner to want his own people in charge, and DanO had hardly established a track record to warrant his retention.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #1002
    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    I don't know if the "paranoia" stuff is real or not (I'm leaning towards "not"), but most paranoid higher-ups are that way because they're in over their head.
    That's a good answer. I hate to say I never considered that but I didn't. If true, that would explain a lot. Hard to imagine a guy who had spent 29 years in the game and previosuly was the #2 guy not being prepared. Jumping up a notch can sure change things.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    This is my position too. The 2008 season is already over; might as well save the turbulence for the offseason.
    If my math is correct, there are still 139 games left this season.

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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I work at a college. Office politics is EVERYTHING.
    So do I. I know, too. And I know that when people get promoted above their abilities they get defensive. Not because folks *are* out to get them, but because they see themselves as failing to be as good as someone who might replace them.

  16. #1005
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

    And that's it, gang. We've reached the 1,000 post limit. Good discussion and feel free to begin another thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I was wrong
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Chip is right


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