Griffey Jr Traded to the White Sox

[jmcclain19]

The guy makes his living playing a kids game and makes monopoly money doing it.

Who's to fault him for wanting to hang on as long as possible.

[mth123]

Wonder if he'll feel differently when the offers are in the $3 Million per year range (at best) in places far from home.

If the Sox have a mutual interest, I'd like a little clarification of the situation.

1. Assuming the Sox buy-out the option, they have to sign him to a new contract. Griffey would be a free agent and that would mean that the first decision would be to offer arbitration.

2. If the Sox offer arbitration, they would need to offer at least 80% of his 2008 salary. Griffey won't make that much. Seems like a no brainer that there would be no arb offer.

3. If the Sox decline to offer arbitration, then they would have only a certain amount of time to negotiate with Griffey or they lose the right to retain him, no?

Here is where I'm unsure. Do the rules say that the offers from the old team, even in free agency, need to be at least 80% of 2008 salary or does that rule only apply to arbitration offers? Also, if there is no arb offer, the rules used to provide a deadline (usually in mid January IIRC) after which he could only re-sign with his old team on a minor league deal until after May 1. Is that rule still in effect?

Personally, I think Griffey will be disappointed in the offers this off-season. I'm guessing it will be difficult for him to get a major league deal and, if it comes, it might be somewhere far from where he wants to be. He may get a deal making a couple million from some team looking for a bit of publicity, but the money situation may change his mind about playing three more years.

Would Griffey accept a minor league contract with an invitation to Spring Training? Would he accept a job as primarily being a DH? Would he be willing to play 1B or LF? Would he play in cities out west? With Bavasi out, and a rebuild apparantly in effect, would Seattle consider signing Griffey for his farewell? Would Griffey play there if invited?

Finally, could we see Griffey back in Cincy (I doubt it myself)? The Reds are in need of a stop gap corner player until some one from the Alonso/Frazier/Dorn group is ready. Would Griffey be willing to platoon at 1B for a couple of years while Alonso gets ready and Votto moves to his permanent home in LF? A Griffey platooning at 1B in Cincy with a cheap RH free agent like Kevin Millar or even..wait for it...Rich Aurilia.. would actually fit with the team's direction. It would hold down a corner spot for the 5th or 6th spot in the order until the rest of the kids are ready without blocking them. It would allow Votto to go ahead and move to LF. It would provide Griffey a way to extend his career while still being near his family and his life. The Reds wouldn't have to give up any talent to fill the spot and could then load up an offer of youngsters (Bailey, Roenicke, Stubbs, etc) in an attempt to acquire a long term SS, a catcher and/or another starting pitcher. Griffey is probably going to have to work for less money than he's thinking right now and he'd probably accept that more easily if it was near his life and family in Cincinnati. I was a critic of his OF play, but I think he'd make a good 1B defensively (better than Votto and way, way, way better than Adam Dunn). If he's willing to work for cheap and accept a platoon role hitting lower in the line-up (at 1B), I'd actually prefer to see him back versus the Reds giving up tons of stuff for an OF bat while so many kids are on the cusp and other needs are more critical. Griffey could even hang around as a LHPH after the kids arrive -another role where the Reds have no decent options right now.

If he really wants to play, he's going to have to make some concessions to his current skill level and how much its worth and where it actually fits on a team. If he's willing, I think the Reds could actually use him in the right role.

[princeton]

Nobody criticizes Julio Franco or Jamie Moyer for continuing to play, and they're not exactly at the top of their game anymore.

Moyer's a better pitcher now than when he could actually throw.

[redsmetz]

Regarding mth's post, I found this on a site called baseball.suite101.com:

The Club's Arbitration Offer Requirements

(1) A club must offer contracts to players under its control by no later than December 12;

(2) If a player has filed for free agency, his former club must offer him arbitration by December 1. If the player accepts by December 7, the player is placed back on the team's roster, and the two sides may continue to negotiate or go to an arbitration hearing. If the free agent player declines the arbitration offer, the sides may continue to negotiate.

(3) The club's salary offer to a player under its control may not be less than 80% of the player's total compensation from the prior year, and may not be less than 70% of his compensation from 2 years earlier. These rules, however, do not apply to free agents who are offered arbitration.

http://baseball.suite101.com/article...itration_works

[Nugget]

The White Sox have been fairly pleased with Junior. He has made some crucial hits and plays during his time there. He is not expected to carry the team either defensively or offensively. Much like the DeWayne Wise has been an admirable substitution for Carlos Quentin. Junior gives them the additional piece. I could see Junior become a piece like Ortiz at the Red Sox at the White Sox. He isn't expected to be the be all and end all of the team. He is just another one of the guys.

[Highlifeman21]

Were you around to see Steve Carlton or Jack Morris' last days? Pretty ugly.

I think it's fine if Julio Franco or Jamie Moyer wants to play forever but a Hall of Famer like Jr is different. Actually Moyer is still on top of his game. Junior's body is also failing him. Franco and Moyer have maintained excellent health into their 40s. If Jr does indeed play 3 more years it'll be ugly indeed

Jack Morris yes, Steve Carlton no.

I guess I just don't want to see Junior's legacy tarnished b/c he stayed around too long.

[vaticanplum]

Moyer's a better pitcher now than when he could actually throw.

Yes, but the point is he was given the chance to improve, and he himself wanted to continue when he easily could have retired.

[westofyou]

Yes, but the point is he was given the chance to improve, and he himself wanted to continue when he easily could have retired.

I see that as uneven comparison, Griffey's game was/is one of a young mans game, Moyers game is making the hitter off balance, his skill set is not as entrenched in youth as Griffey's was/is.

[vaticanplum]

I see that as uneven comparison, Griffey's game was/is one of a young mans game, Moyers game is making the hitter off balance, his skill set is not as entrenched in youth as Griffey's was/is.

I agree, but again, I'm talking specifically about player desire, not any team's reason to keep him. On paper there was no reason for Moyer to keep pitching except the desire to continue playing. He could have retired comfortably and it's not like he had great stats or a HOF career to chase after. At his age certainly no one would have questioned retirement.

[princeton]

Yes, but the point is he was given the chance to improve, and he himself wanted to continue when he easily could have retired.

your point is that Junior could improve given an opportunity?

I don't see that. seems like Jr's gotten lots of opportunities. I anticipate no improvement. Larkin's last year was one in which he felt a lot better and performed well, so that could happen for Jr.

he hit 30 HRs as recently as one year ago, and guys do have off-seasons. So he could very well still have another 30+ year in him, particularly if he DHs. But I expect more dropoff. just a part of life. It bothers some people, but not me. let him play if he likes.

Jr's real issue is that borderline players often get traded and cut. he may not want to drag his family through that.

[vaticanplum]

your point is that Junior could improve given an opportunity?

I don't see that. seems like Jr's gotten lots of opportunities. I anticipate no improvement. Larkin's last year was one in which he felt a lot better and performed well, so that could happen for Jr.

he hit 30 HRs as recently as one year ago, and guys do have off-seasons. So he could very well still have another 30+ year in him, particularly if he DHs. But I expect more dropoff. just a part of life. It bothers some people, but not me. let him play if he likes.

Jr's real issue is that borderline players often get traded and cut. he may not want to drag his family through that.

I don't know how I can make my point clearer. My point is that players like Moyer continue not always because teams want them to, but because the players themselves want to.

I'm speaking to nothing regarding Junior's future stats (I definitely believe his best days are behind him) or what he would be worth to a team. I'm speaking to his desire to continue playing only. Whatever it is that's pushing him is more than money or a comfortable life. And whatever it is may not even be achievable, but it makes it tough to question his real love for the game and desire to play -- which is something that people HAVE questioned in the past.

Originally the sentiment on this thread was that it's somehow deplorable for Junior to continue playing when he's no longer at his best; that's the only sentiment I was countering. Morally speaking, I think his reasons for continuing to play may in fact be admirable. That's all I meant -- I wasn't speaking to the realities of what he might mean to a team or who will give him a chance or how much he will make. I think RFS probably stated it better.

[Cyclone792]

Griffey's power is pretty much drying up as we speak. In his last ~900 plate appearances, he has only 27 home runs; that goes back to July 1, 2007. He went on an absolute tear in May and June of 2007, but he hasn't been the same since then.

Griffey might hit 20 homers next season if he plays close to full-time as a DH, but I wouldn't expect much more than that. His real offensive value will come from walks - he still has a solid eye - and a solid on-base percentage as a result of those walks. I think he can throw up a .370 OBP next season against righties, but he won't have much power and he just won't hit lefties any longer.

[princeton]

I don't know how I can make my point clearer. My point is that players like Moyer continue not always because teams want them to, but because the players themselves want to.

I just don't think that you have a particularly good point. Moyer's been making at least $6mill/year for each of the past 9 years, so there's a team that wants him to continue. He never made a ton before that time, so he's making up for it now. I imagine that he's thrilled to finally have success and that's part of his drive. But he's not doing it for free.

IMO, he doesn't help your point.

if Jr takes a huge paycut next year, say to $2mill, to play this little boy game, then I'll believe you.

did Barry Bonds state that he'd play for league minimum this season? maybe he's the only guy with the joy.

[vaticanplum]

I just don't think that you have a particularly good point. Moyer's been making at least $6mill/year for each of the past 9 years, so there's a team that wants him to continue. He never made a ton before that time, so he's making up for it now. I imagine that he's thrilled to finally have success and that's part of his drive. But he's not doing it for free.

IMO, he doesn't help your point.

if Jr takes a huge paycut next year, say to $2mill, to play this little boy game, then I'll believe you.

did Barry Bonds state that he'd play for league minimum this season? maybe he's the only guy with the joy.

You're really getting bogged down in one example (which was admittedly not the best) rather than the actual point. Which had only to do with Griffey's motivations.

And I for one would have had my respect increase for Barry Bonds increased slightly -- just slightly -- if a team had picked him up to play for league minimum this year.

[remdog]

And I for one would have had my respect increase for Barry Bonds increased slightly -- just slightly -- if a team had picked him up to play for league minimum this year.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Rem