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Thread: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

  1. #211
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I knew it wouldn't be long before fans started to turn on Bruce.
    I would prefer that rookies bat sixth or seventh from the beginning, for the entire season, giving them the season to learn.

    I guess they don't think much of their veteran players, seems like they would be holding down the 1-5.

    Why not a Patterson, Bako, Hairston or Encarncion in the three and bat Bruce down in the order?


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  3. #212
    Strategery RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post

    I keep telling myself that he's only 21.


    That's pretty much the only thing any of us should be telling ourselves about him.

    What 21 year old on earth is any better?
    We'll go down in history as the first society that wouldn't save itself because it wasn't cost effective ~ Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #213
    Member corkedbat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I knew it wouldn't be long before fans started to turn on Bruce.
    I haven't "turned" on JB in the least. I realize he's 21 and there's plenty for him to learn. My problem is how this franchise seems ready to put him at the center of their re-building plan - like he was a finished product.

    I would drop him in the order and hope that he can make adjustments over the last few weeks of the season. After the season I would make it clear to him what he needs to work on and also stress that he does not have the opening day roster made.

    I'd like to see them add at least two or three OF options this offseason also to give the team the option of starting Bruce out in Louisville if he doesn't respond. I don't know that there are two or three OF options out there that are going to make a difference whether we compete or not, but neither is Jay Bruce until he makes the necessary adjustments.

    If he does show improvement then any OFs you bring in give you a stronger bench or become bargaining chips to help fix another hole.

  5. #214
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Why on earth would I root for a player on the Reds to do poorly?

    I'm no big fan of CPat, but it's not his fault he can't hit. He doesn't make out the lineup.

    You think his effort level is suspect?

    I don't. I just don't think he can hit.
    I doubt he's trying to suck......he just does. If he were a woman, I'd be glad he was good at it...

  6. #215
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Votto made a bad throw to home.......but the runner made a good heads up...agressive play....so instead of placing blame, how about giving the runner more credit and not look gor who is really at fault.

    Bako is too easy a target.....and calling for a throw to 1st was the right call....EE made agood quick throw.....Votto just Garveyed it back to Paul.
    Soto's speed and daringness caught them off guard...IMO.

    GEORGE FOSTER.....ERIC DAVIS....TONY PEREZ.....those are 3 players i can name who were not yet ready for prime time at 21.

  7. #216
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    GEORGE FOSTER.....ERIC DAVIS....TONY PEREZ.....those are 3 players i can name who were not yet ready for prime time at 21.
    The only one of the three who was playing in the majors at age 21 was Foster who had two brief stints with the Giants at ages 20 and 21. He was traded to the Reds during when he was 22, and the rest is, as they say, history.

    Davis didn't start playing had a couple of 50 game stints with the club when he was 22 and 23 and stayed up from 24 on. Perez had a short stint at 22, then stayed up after that.

    These guys are still young and developing.
    “In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.” - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

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  8. #217
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Bako is too easy a target
    Why? Because he clearly made the wrong call?

    It's the catcher's job to direct Edwin's throw there -- just as he should direct the pitcher when the pitcher fields a bunt. To me, it's a no-brainer.

  9. #218
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    My problem is how this franchise seems ready to put him at the center of their re-building plan - like he was a finished product.
    agreed

    he's buckling right now, and Baker should recognize that and take the pressure off -- as many others have noted, Bruce should be dropped in the batting order -- I'd have Votto 3rd

  10. #219
    Man Pills Falls City Beer's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I knew it wouldn't be long before fans started to turn on Bruce.
    Nah. Not turning on him. Just an observation. He does chase bad stuff. But we knew that.
    “And when finally they sense that some position cannot be sustained, they do not re-examine their ideas. Instead, they simply change the subject.” Jamie Galbraith

  11. #220
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    It is also a no brainer to me that throwing to 1st to get the easy out was not a bad choice......and if Votto makes a good throw....they still have a chance to get the runner. Read the whole breakdown i did....instead of again ..focusing on the easy target. Give the other team's player some credit as well.....and if Keppinger is not standing on 3rd...what point is it to even look at the runner unless you see him on your right side. He was a few yards behind EE....so if he turns around to freeze him, he might lose the runner at 1st.
    He got the easier out....runner made a good play, Votto made a weak throw.

    Good thing Cueto pitched a good game or else Bako would be blamed for calling a crappy game for him and he would be the reason he pitched bad.
    The easier thing to do is keep harping on PB terrible hitting......that cannot ever be denied.

  12. #221
    Goober GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Reds vs Cubs 8/19/08

    Quote Originally Posted by guttle11 View Post
    He's thinking squeeze and looked home like he should have been. Bako pointed to first, and that's where the ball went. He made a good play.

    Bako either messed up by pointing to first, or someone else made a mistake by not sliding over to cover third. Outside of just not liking Edwin, I can't see how someone blames him for that. He's thinking out first, trusting his catcher to tell him where to go.
    I agree there was numerous mistakes made during that play. Kepp should have been covering 3B to hold that runner. Bako made two mistakes - telling him to go to 1B, and then not getting back in position, getting caught off guard on the throw back home because the throw was right there on the 3B side of the plate. Unfortunately, Bako was nowhere in the right position.

    But EE was the guy with ball in hand. And as I stated before - you should already be mentally prepared, as that next batter comes to the plate, as to where you're going to make the play if the ball is hit to you.

    He still had time to look back and check that runner before going to 1B.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)


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