01/05/2011 Baseball America's Top-10 Reds Prospects

[edabbs44]

Which other "sleepers" did he identify?

Pedro Villareal and Daryl Thompson. Brodie Green as well.

[RED VAN HOT]

Pedro Villareal and Daryl Thompson. Brodie Green as well.

Glad to see Brodie Green get a mention. I think he had a good first season starting at A+ and sticking there.

The BA article highlighted the problems with placing Francisco and Alonso defensively. The conclusion seemed to be that Alonso could only play first and that Francisco could only play third, if that. Did Francisco show any defensive improvement in the DWL? I know that many on the board like the offensive skills of these players, but I can't see either of them in the Reds plans. (I still like Frazier at 3B) When the subject of moving minor league players comes up, these two are the ones I could see going, especially if Votto is signed to a multi-year contract.

[redsof72]

J.J. does a great job with this process and really researches well by talking to scouts, managers, coaches, and other observers. But with some of the "Best Tools" selections, they focus a little too much on the player's overall status as a prospect. For example, there is no way on God's green earth that LaMarre is the best defensive outfielder in the system. He was not the best defensive outfielder on the Dayton team last season. Andrew Means was, without question, a better defensive player than LaMarre, and the evidence of that was the fact that when Means was healthy, he played center field to take advantage of his better range and LaMarre moved over to right. But Baseball America, I am sure, wants to put higher-profile names in those slots.

The fact that they have Lotzkar rated ahead of Joseph puzzles me. With this selection, it raises the question of how you are defining the word "prospect." Lotzkar theoretically could be given more credit because he is a starter, has three solid pitches, and is a little younger. But my goodness, Joseph is a virtual guarantee to have a major league career (at the very least, as a situational lefty) while Lotzkar has to show he can get out of extended spring training. Who knows whether Lotzkar can ever pitch a full season, more less get to the big leagues? That selection is based more on imagination than reality.

[redsof72]

I like the mention of Ronald Torreyes. He has the physical build of a jockey, but unbelievable baseball skills. I want to see how he hits over a full-season in a decent league. Defensively, I saw enough of him last year to say that he was the best fielding second baseman I have seen in the Midwest League in three years. It seemed like every game, he made at least one or two plays that no one else would have made. When he came into Dayton for the final week of the 2010 season, he generated a lot of attention among people who did not know much about him. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in 2011. Much of it might depend on what they do with Devin Lohman, who would seem to be in line to play second base in Dayton.

[lollipopcurve]

I like the mention of Ronald Torreyes. He has the physical build of a jockey, but unbelievable baseball skills. I want to see how he hits over a full-season in a decent league. Defensively, I saw enough of him last year to say that he was the best fielding second baseman I have seen in the Midwest League in three years. It seemed like every game, he made at least one or two plays that no one else would have made. When he came into Dayton for the final week of the 2010 season, he generated a lot of attention among people who did not know much about him. It will be interesting to see what they do with him in 2011. Much of it might depend on what they do with Devin Lohman, who would seem to be in line to play second base in Dayton.

Good to hear from you 72, as always. I would not be surprised if Torreyes starts in Dayton. Vaulting him there at the end of 2010 is a sign that they may fast track him past Billings, I think. He's the same age as Yorman, and both are Venezuelan, which could argue for the two of them traveling up the ladder together.

I wonder how much they signed Torreyes for. I don't think he had any press whatsoever in that class of signings.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Great stuff.

Thanks, 72!

[mace]

I like the mention of Ronald Torreyes. He has the physical build of a jockey, but unbelievable baseball skills. I want to see how he hits over a full-season in a decent league. Defensively, I saw enough of him last year to say that he was the best fielding second baseman I have seen in the Midwest League in three years. It seemed like every game, he made at least one or two plays that no one else would have made.

This is an extremely intriguing observation. My keen interest in Torreyes has been based only on his eye-popping hitting last year. I had no idea about his defense. And yet this makes it sound as though his defense is good enough to move him along at an accelerated pace, as well. As far as I'm concerned, this information should warrant him consideration in or close to the top grouping of Reds prospects.

[lollipopcurve]

As far as I'm concerned, this information should warrant him consideration in or close to the top grouping of Reds prospects.

I think so too. The guy's so little and so young, but the baseball skills appear to be elite.

[redsof72]

Torreyes (pronounced tuh-Ray-us) is listed at 5'10", 150 lbs. I would say he is probably 5'8", 135 lbs. Physically, he would remind you of Freddie Patek, the all-star shortstop of the Royals during the 1970's.

For the record, Torreyes started 2010 in the Venezuelan Summer League and hit .390 in 67 games against weak pitching. He moved up to the AZL Reds, supposedly because they needed defense at that position. He played in 18 games without an error. He hit .349. He moved up to Dayton for the last six games (Billings was in the playoff hunt so no players were taken from their roster at that time).

Watching him with Dayton was one of the best parts of the second half. The little guy was all over the field defensively, making one spectacular play after another. It took all of one game to see that he was something special in the field. Tremendous athleticism at second base with great range and just flat out baseball skills.

I have no idea if he will hit. He looks like he is 15 years old when you see him. But he can flat out play defense. Benzinger loved the kid, although he sometimes made jokes tying in the jockey theme, like "he was really on his horse going after that ball." But Benzinger also said that over a full season, the kid would hit 10 home runs, meaning he at least thought the kid could avoid getting the bat knocked out of his hands.

I am anxious to see where they start this kid. Lohman got a lot of money and will play somewhere. Hamilton is going to play short. Second base and shortstop in high-A are spoken for. Might push Torreyes back a year.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

What was Joe Morgan?

5'7? 150-160?

Jimmy Rollins? 5-8, 160-170?

Torreyes is still a pup (age of a Sr. in HS/Fr. in college). Shouldn't be too tough for him to gain a few pounds as he ages. Add in a little weight training and some supplements and it shouldn't be an issue.

[dougdirt]

Shouldn't be too tough for him to gain a few pounds as he ages. Add in a little weight training and some supplements and it shouldn't be an issue.

This is a common misconception. Some people just don't have the frame to add weight regardless of what weight training and supplements they have access to. Not that Torreyes fits in there, because I honestly don't know, but the idea that anyone can just pack on 20 pounds with better training/supplements isn't true.

[corkedbat]

J.J. does a great job with this process and really researches well by talking to scouts, managers, coaches, and other observers. But with some of the "Best Tools" selections, they focus a little too much on the player's overall status as a prospect. For example, there is no way on God's green earth that LaMarre is the best defensive outfielder in the system. He was not the best defensive outfielder on the Dayton team last season. Andrew Means was, without question, a better defensive player than LaMarre, and the evidence of that was the fact that when Means was healthy, he played center field to take advantage of his better range and LaMarre moved over to right. But Baseball America, I am sure, wants to put higher-profile names in those slots.

The fact that they have Lotzkar rated ahead of Joseph puzzles me. With this selection, it raises the question of how you are defining the word "prospect." Lotzkar theoretically could be given more credit because he is a starter, has three solid pitches, and is a little younger. But my goodness, Joseph is a virtual guarantee to have a major league career (at the very least, as a situational lefty) while Lotzkar has to show he can get out of extended spring training. Who knows whether Lotzkar can ever pitch a full season, more less get to the big leagues? That selection is based more on imagination than reality.

I love Lotzkar, but I want to see a full healthy season above Rookie ball before I get too excited. Not saying he can't do it at all. Just afraid he's one of those kids with a world of talent who just can't stay healthy long enough to leverage it into a big league career.

I'm hoping Joseph can keep doing what he's doing and makes it easier for the FO to move Chapman to the rotation for good in 2012.

[corkedbat]

Torreyes at 2B and Hamilton at SS could be intriguing in the middle of the infield and at the top of the order in two or three years.

[Redsfaithful]

This is a common misconception. Some people just don't have the frame to add weight regardless of what weight training and supplements they have access to. Not that Torreyes fits in there, because I honestly don't know, but the idea that anyone can just pack on 20 pounds with better training/supplements isn't true.

Better training and supplements, no. Eating more calories than you're burning every day, yes.

Torreyes will fill out a little bit, just about everyone does at his age.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

This is a common misconception. Some people just don't have the frame to add weight regardless of what weight training and supplements they have access to.

Based on his pictures and if he is indeed 5-8, 135 I would think he does have the frame to add weight. I'm not saying it would happen overnight, but by the time he's in his early 20's, there is no reason why not.

A tiny minority of people might fall into the category of not being able to gain weight after the age of 18. Aging helps. Lifting and taking supplements most definitely helps.

With today's resources I would think anyone that can't gain 15-20 lbs on a 5-8 135 frame (over a 5-year period) would fit into the extreme minority or just didn't put the time in.