Royals interested in Bruce?

[Kc61]

Peraza wasn't a top 25 prospect at the time of the deal. Top 100? Yes. Top 75? Maybe. Top 25? Negative.

Look at the 2015 MLB.com Pipeline top 100 for 2015.

Peraza is #24.

Maybe other lists too, but, definitely that one.

[Kc61]

He was 25 on an outdated list. He was dropping like a rock. Even though a lot of the same guys he was on the list with had graduated off, he still went pretty far down instead of up, and two organizations basically gave up on him within a year.

If they acquired Peraza and Schebler version 2 for Bruce, I'd be unhappy with the deal even though I expect Bruce to net a fair bit less than what Frazier should have.

I don't know how he could be "dropping like a rock" unless you are on the MLB.pipeline staff and had some inside knowledge. There aren't any interim reports which changed it. Simply, he was 24 at the time of the trade.

He didn't have good stats in 2015 so it might have been expected he would fall the next go around, but he was only 21 at AAA so nobody knew. He was still 24 on the list.

Simply, at the time of the trade he was #24.

If you don't like him, I'm sorry.

[corkedbat]

I'd be willing to include a young pitcher (not named Reed, Stephenson or Garrett) to increase the return for Bruce.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't know how he could be "dropping like a rock" unless you are on the MLB.pipeline staff and had some inside knowledge. There aren't any interim reports which changed it. Simply, he was 24 at the time of the trade.

He didn't have good stats in 2015 so it might have been expected he would fall the next go around, but he was only 21 at AAA so nobody knew. He was still 24 on the list.

Simply, at the time of the trade he was 24.

If you don't like him, I'm sorry.

I don't really get the point of pointing to an arbitrary list that lacks context.

At the time of the trade, a fair evaluation, without even going to the prospect lists saw a player that did not have power, and did not project well in that department. He profiled as a contact guy, but not a patient OBP hitter. He projected to be a second basemen with good, yet not elite defense.

He had enough development remaining that we could basically pencil him in as a starter.

What I'm trying to say is that at the time of the trade he did not have a profile of a typical top 25 prospect. You may have found one opinion (that may or may not have out dated) that thought he was. But the average prospect with that skillset is not the makings of an elite player. He looked like a guy that had a solid chance of being an average position player.

Call that what you will, but in my books there are going to be 25-75 better prospects in any given year than someone with that profile.

[mth123]

I don't know how he could be "dropping like a rock" unless you are on the MLB.pipeline staff and had some inside knowledge. There aren't any interim reports which changed it. Simply, he was 24 at the time of the trade.

He didn't have good stats in 2015 so it might have been expected he would fall the next go around, but he was only 21 at AAA so nobody knew. He was still 24 on the list.

Simply, at the time of the trade he was 24.

If you don't like him, I'm sorry.

You don't have to be on the staff to see what was happening. We actually have the new list to tell us exactly what was going on. Peraza dropped from 24 to 66 (which is actually not where he was because the list now has already removed guys like Seager and Buxton who have graduated and inched everyone else up). I sure hope no one on the Reds staff was waiting for the new list to come out to judge Peraza's value. I'm pretty sure that teams don't really rank guys like that. I think its just a device aimed at schmucks like us to generate clicks or sell magazines, but if they did use rankings I'd say they knew he wasn't a top 25 prospect when they dealt for him. If they didn't, then things are even worse than many have been saying.

Even the fact that he was 24 is a misnomer. He was farther down and guys graduated off. They don't redo the list, but they do remove guys who become ineligible every so often and everybody else moves up. Calling him a top 25 prospect is basically invoking a technicality.

[Kc61]

Peraza was also the Atlanta Braves #1 prospect for 2014 and the LA Dodgers #4 prospect for 2015 on the Baseball America lists. In addition to #24 on the MLB.com pipeline list in 2015.

The fellow was a very highly touted prospect.

I'm not disputing the fact that RedsZoners feel he wasn't a worthy return for Frazier. Nor am I challenging the substance behind that view, although as usual I feel it is prematurely negative.

But I was addressing a post, and there have been many, that (I felt) didn't do justice to the guy's pedigree and high standing as one of the better prospects in baseball when acquired.

[mth123]

Despite where anyone ranked, the one thing going for Bruce that Frazier didn't have is the fact that there is a pennant race going on. Some team thinks Left Handed pop puts them over the top may overpay for Bruce. It's why they should have held Frazier and Chapman for a better deal as well. I'm confident that the Yankees will get more for Chapman than they gave, if they feel they are out of it and need to deal him. Some team with pennants in their eyes will pony up. I hope the Reds can use that to their advantage with Bruce in a way that they didn't allow to occur with Frazier and Chapman.

[Kc61]

Despite where anyone ranked, the one thing going for Bruce that Frazier didn't have is the fact that there is a pennant race going on. Some team thinks Left Handed pop puts them over the top may overpay for Bruce. It's why they should have held Frazier and Chapman for a better deal as well. I'm confident that the Yankees will get more for Chapman than they gave, if they feel they are out of it and need to deal him. Some team with pennants in their eyes will pony up. I hope the Reds can use that to their advantage with Bruce in a way that they didn't allow to occur with Frazier and Chapman.

I too would play real hardball on a Bruce trade. I'd risk paying his buy out and getting zero. Or making a QO and getting him for another year at $14+ million.

At this point, they have already cut salary, they have the draft position, the Int'l flexibility, the prospect depth is growing. Reds guessed right holding Bruce, I'd play it for all it's worth.

But I doubt this will happen. The Reds will make the best deal possible and trade Bruce by the deadline, I think it's highly likely. And the return will disappoint some, as often happens.

[mth123]

I too would play real hardball on a Bruce trade. I'd risk paying his buy out and getting zero. Or making a QO and getting him for another year at $14+ million.

At this point, they have already cut salary, they have the draft position, the Int'l flexibility, the prospect depth is growing. Reds guessed right holding Bruce, I'd play it for all it's worth.

But I doubt this will happen. The Reds will make the best deal possible and trade Bruce by the deadline, I think it's highly likely. And the return will disappoint some, as often happens.

Until this whole Frazier/Peraza mess, we used to agree all the time. I think we are exactly on the same page here.

[Kc61]

Until this whole Frazier/Peraza mess, we used to agree all the time. I think we are exactly on the same page here.

We agreed during the playoff years. On the rebuild, I seem to be more supportive of the front office than you and many others. I think it is going ok, really do, sense there were business realities that required those winter trades and am ok with them. Draft day will be a key.

On Bruce, time to take a stand, we agree.

[Big Klu]

Until this whole Frazier/Peraza mess, we used to agree all the time. I think we are exactly on the same page here.

I used to think you two were the same person.

[Kc61]

I used to think you two were the same person.

Nah, but we were a good tag team. Maybe again soon.

[Tom Servo]

"I think what people may forget is that I think people in a lot of ways are comparing me to what I did in 2014 and '15," Bruce said. "I've been OK at baseball before this. I've had some good years, and I feel normal. I think that's the biggest thing that I'm going to have to continue to show. I feel like Jay Bruce."

http://m.reds.mlb.com/news/article/1...eficit-vs-reds

[Knightro28]

http://m.reds.mlb.com/news/article/1...eficit-vs-reds

People forget that.

[LoganBuck]

A friend of mine who is an Indians fan was asking me what I thought it would take for the Tribe to get Bruce. I said that the Reds would love one of Zimmer/Frazier, but that there would be no way Cleveland would go for that. He thought that was accurate. I postured that Brady Aiken wouldn't be too bad of a return.