Phil Castellini surprised that Opening Day tickets still unsold

[Bourgeois Zee]

I hate the apologist crap. It gets so tired when the line is used. I’m not an apologist. Speaking to the public about private business dealings is like politics. There’s going to always be a certain level of BS that goes with it. Your examples IMO were general statements that fall under the BS that the vast majority of people in such positions regurgitate. It’s GM speak. I’m interested in specific out and out lies not GM speak has a certain level of BS type stuff.

If you're okay with lying after asking when have the Reds lied, I'd argue that's pretty much a picture-perfect example of being an apologist.

YMMV.

Fwiw, any interaction with the public could be considered general BS statements. I find that troubling, to say the least. Tell me the truth or be prepared to be called for lying.

And they are lies. We know that. You've admitted it. They're just not lies you find objectionable.

[Old school 1983]

Not just here in Cincinnati.

Generally speaking, you should disbelieve any sports owner about what the team can/cannot afford unless they're willing to open their books and show you the balance sheet.

The Braves had to do that, and it turns out they were pocketing over $100M last year alone.

https://sports.yahoo.com/champion-br...173334889.html

Exactly. There’s a certain level of BS that goes into all of this type of stuff. Owners are going to make their money and use GM speak to cover their butts. I’m more interested in lies that go to their overarching plan communicated to the fan base. I’m that regard there has been incompetence. But incompetence isn’t lying.

[Old school 1983]

If you're okay with lying after asking when have the Reds lied, I'd argue that's pretty much a picture-perfect example of being an apologist.

YMMV.

My point was every freaking sports organization BSes and fudges about the stuff you brought up. Sure. It’s lies. But it’s lies that would occur under pretty much every other ownership situation in all of sports. Changing whatever won’t change that. I’m more interested where they have lies outside of the all sports organizations BS about this stuff range.

[Wonderful Monds]

No. There were zero FA signed this off-season after Krall literally said we’d bring in guys after the Winker/Suarez deal. But I’m sure you’ll just want to piss all over those guys too despite them being solid players.

Thank god we used Jesse Winker to salary dump Suarez so we could sign a mid 30s declining Tommy Pham. Everything is going to be okay.

[Old school 1983]

Thank god we used Jesse Winker to salary dump Suarez so we could sign a mid 30s declining Tommy Pham. Everything is going to be okay.

Thank god the Reds got 2 MLB players that outperformed Suarez and Winker in terms of bWAR last season. Thank god we got one top notch pitching prospect who is K’ing an absurd amount of batters/9 and will likely appear in the MLB this year. Thank god the Reds got another guy with crazy electric stuff who profiles to at least be an MLB reliever. Thank god they’ll have Suarez’s money to spend to supplement the group of kids the next 3 years. And yes thank god for Solano and Pham who each outperformed Suarez last year for the same money and it wasn’t even close.

[Wonderful Monds]

lol

[LeatherPants]

Thank god they’ll have Suarez’s money to spend to supplement the group of kids the next 3 years. .

You should stop saying this, because it's just wrong, because they would have money to do that anyway.


They've got money to do that this year and stay under the magical 48% of revenue they seem to want to stay under.

[Wonderful Monds]

Reds payroll: 99 mil

League average payroll: 134 mil

Yeah they’re definitely going to reallocate that money lmao

[Bourgeois Zee]

Thank god the Reds got 2 MLB players that outperformed Suarez and Winker in terms of bWAR last season..

Who did the Reds get who outperformed Winker's 2.7 bWAR last season?

[Bourgeois Zee]

My point was every freaking sports organization BSes and fudges about the stuff you brought up.

They indeed do not all lie about salary as Red ownership has done every year since they bought control of the team. (And before.)

[MoneyInTheBank]

Regardless of the level of success achieved, I think this group has been more or less honest with what they are trying to do over the years. The execution has just been bad. Despite the pissing and moaning over the off-season, I can see how they may be seeing the light. Focusing on young, mostly high velocity arms. Moving on from guys who had one dimensional softball type games no matter how much fans liked them. Freeing up a large war chest of money for years to come. Brining in older but solid veteran bats that get on base to supplement the kids in their development. As much as it hurt to let some of the last iteration of the team go, I can see where this builds in a positive direction.

I don't agree but let's say they have been 100% honest with what they were trying to do and the execution has just been poor. I'm now being asked to blindly follow the same folks that have been at the controls for repeated failures in execution over the course of 16 years to suddenly develop a sustained winner.

Reducing Jesse Winker to a softball player when he is one of the best hitters in MLB and suggesting his production doesn't match is popularity is incredibly shortsighted.

A war chest sounds great but you still have to replace production and we aren't talking about $50M a year to do so. We are talking maybe $10-20M. You see how fast that gets gobbled up on Pham, Solano and Minor.

I'm glad you can see where this is going in a positive direction but dismissing the dissenting opinion as "butthurt" isn't really adding to the discussion either

[LeatherPants]

Reds payroll: 99 mil

League average payroll: 134 mil

Yeah they’re definitely going to reallocate that money lmao

When taking inflation into consideration, the Reds payroll this year is roughly the same as it was in 2010. They had a revenue in 2010 of $179 million, which is worth about $233 million today. They should have somewhere in the neighborhood of $290-$300 million in revenue this year.

[LeatherPants]

The Reds should have about $100 million in their "war chest" from 2016-2018 that they've never spent. This is the year they should have used it, coming off a winning season and with expanded playoffs. That's why some of us are so freaking mad.

[Sea Ray]

I get the thinking that they want to trade talent in order to build for the future but I'm underwhelmed with the return. 20 yr old hard throwers in A Ball are a low percentage gamble. There's everything from injury to control problems that can derail them on the way to the major leagues. Other than that, all I'm seeing in return are bit players on a major league team. This is a low percentage way to build your team for the future. They're insulting our intelligence by thinking that we'll buy in. I'll frankly put it this way: we have in recent years traded more highly touted prospects than these players we've received. Josiah Gray, Taylor Trammell and Gregorious just to name a few. Why can't we at least expect to get that sort of return for our veterans?

[Old school 1983]

Who did the Reds get who outperformed Winker's 2.7 bWAR last season?

Suarez had minus .7. The whole deal saw 2 WAR leave the Reds. Dunn and Fraley were each over 1 apiece.

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The Reds should have about $100 million in their "war chest" from 2016-2018 that they've never spent. This is the year they should have used it, coming off a winning season and with expanded playoffs. That's why some of us are so freaking mad.

Did they not spend that in 2019, 2020 and 2021?