Reds Trade And Free Agent Rumours 2023-24 Offseason

[Ron Madden]

Red Sox Two Potential Trade Targets At Second Base

There is no doubt that second base is a priority for the Red Sox as they have already engaged in trade talks with the Reds about Jonathan India and with the Yankees regarding Gleyber Torres.

This is not the first time that the Red Sox have been linked to Torres.
As unlikely as it might be that Brian Cashman and Breslow would work together to hash out a deal, WEEI’s Rob Bradford reported earlier this month that the Red Sox have long been interested in the Yankees infielder.

A potential swap centered on Alex Verdugo could placate the Yankees if Boston was fixated on bringing Torres aboard.

It might take a bit more to convince the Reds to part with India, considering the 26-year-old infielder still has another two years of arbitration in place.

Given the team control still in place with India’s contract, Reds president of baseball operations Nick Krall said last week that the organization is not necessarily looking to move its second baseman.

“I wouldn’t say we are motivated (to trade India),” Krall said. “If a deal comes around, we have to be open to anything."

But if Breslow and the Red Sox are motivated enough to acquire India, a deep prospect pool might be enough to entice the Reds to sit at the negotiating table.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/oth...se/ar-AA1kjxmh

[Old school 1983]

Respectfully, my issue with these statements is that it portrays the situation as binary. Either you supported a complete teardown and you get to take credit for all of the talent that came back or that you did not support a complete teardown and get to take credit for none of the talent that came back.

I don't think the level of unproven talent coming back was ever in question but a boatload of prime proven talent went out the door to get there. I don't think it needed to go as far as it did.

Sure, I'll take an L on the Suarez/Winker trade. I hated it as I did not anticipate Winker's impending cliff. If you did, congrats.

I sure would have liked to have Gray and/or Castillo in the rotation last season though.

It’s not a binary. If you remember a couple years back when it all went down I was calling for nuance and objective analysis. Once the the apologist stuff starts, I’ll strongly advocate in a fashion that might make it come off as a binary.

And I’d have loved to have Castillo and Gray last year…but even the widest eyed of optimists didn’t se the rebuild working as quickly as it did to keeping them would have a potential playoff making impact. The arguments to keep them were pretty much accompanied with the Reds are cheap idiots for not. I don’t think I saw a single the Reds should have kept them for a 2023 playoff run

[Old school 1983]

The analogy you have does not work, because all the premium FA shortstops were going to cost MINIMUM of 10 million/year.
Reds only had 2-3 million to spend, based on what they offered that guy that ended up going to the Mets.
Reds can claim they "talked to the agents", but they had no serious offer.
It's like when Bowden joked that he offered Kevin Brown a 10 year deal, for one million per year. (Or something similar to that, it was a joke he told).

How do do you know they only had 3-4 to spend? Unless you had inside info, you don’t. The guy that went to the Mets was Jonathan Villar. He wasn’t the top of the market. Why would they give him $10? It’s like saying why not pay the full 775 for the house I mentioned earlier when you know it’ll only appraise for 750. You’ll be left holding the bag.

The Reds aren’t that stupid. They aren’t going to offer a 10 million dollar player 2 million dollars in a competitive environment. That’s just a waste of everyone’s time. No one offers $200 for a new car like in your example because it’s absurd.

[LeatherPants]

The Reds aren’t that stupid.

I'm going to stop you there.

[Mitri]

The real bummer about what's about to transpire (nothing) is that this is one of the richest free-agent markets for mid-level starting pitchers in a while. There are a lot of these guys that fit the Reds' needs, and it perfectly coincides with all this money coming off the books and a homegrown youth movement on the upswing.

All we'll get from Krall is how he tried but didn't have any luck, and anyway, we need to reserve innings for Brandon Williamson.

[Larry Schuler]

“Older Reds fans will remember the success this franchise had bringing Jose Rijo back after several years away from the mound. That’s why we were excited to bring back Brandon Claussen, John Lamb, Elizardo Ramirez, and Luke Hudson to serve as our 5th day starting committee. We inquired about active players who are still pitching quality innings and the price tag was too high this go-round. And we inquired about active players who could provide 4-5 innings of 7.00ERA baseball and the price tag was too high this go-round. So, we adjusted our plan to give us the best chance at winning and offered these 4 retired warm bodies $200,000 each to Voltron their way through 4-5 innings of Reds baseball every 5th day. We’re really excited to see how they pitch and contribute to the Reds success.” - Nicholas J. Krall

“Reds were never going to be in the running for a good active pitcher or a bad active pitcher. Signing 4 retired players in their 40s and 50s is actually a really smart way to cover those innings and keep payroll down, setting the team up for some more spend flex at the trade deadline. Some people may choose to be pessimistic but I’m ready for the season to begin and to see those negative fans have to eat some crow.” - anonymous RedsZone posters

[Kinsm]

I don’t think that comment would be anonymous.

[MoneyInTheBank]

It’s not a binary. If you remember a couple years back when it all went down I was calling for nuance and objective analysis. Once the the apologist stuff starts, I’ll strongly advocate in a fashion that might make it come off as a binary.

And I’d have loved to have Castillo and Gray last year…but even the widest eyed of optimists didn’t se the rebuild working as quickly as it did to keeping them would have a potential playoff making impact. The arguments to keep them were pretty much accompanied with the Reds are cheap idiots for not. I don’t think I saw a single the Reds should have kept them for a 2023 playoff run

I guess I would just ask for the same respect that you didn't feel you got making your nuanced arguments. I'm giving you nuance but am being outright dismissed. I didn't see a 2023 playoff run but, once Gray was traded, wanted to keep one of Castillo/Mahle (keeping Mahle would have been a disaster, in hindsight) because I value having stable, high performing veterans.

I hope I never outright dismissed your arguments with "the Reds are cheap idiots" or anything of the like. I sincerely apologize if I ever did and vow to be better.

[mth123]

The Reds aren’t that stupid. They aren’t going to offer a 10 million dollar player 2 million dollars in a competitive environment. That’s just a waste of everyone’s time. No one offers $200 for a new car like in your example because it’s absurd.

I think this is exactly what they do. Then they say they tried but just couldn't get it done. Some fans buy it and blame it on the chips not falling the right way.

Maybe it's not to the extreme in your example, but I think they low ball the best players and then pass it off as trying and it just not working out.

[Old school 1983]

I'm going to stop you there.

No one’s that stupid. Get a grip.

[Old school 1983]

I guess I would just ask for the same respect that you didn't feel you got making your nuanced arguments. I'm giving you nuance but am being outright dismissed. I didn't see a 2023 playoff run but, once Gray was traded, wanted to keep one of Castillo/Mahle (keeping Mahle would have been a disaster, in hindsight) because I value having stable, high performing veterans.

I hope I never outright dismissed your arguments with "the Reds are cheap idiots" or anything of the like. I sincerely apologize if I ever did and vow to be better.

You have been pretty fair as far as discussing things. I was speaking to the post that I originally responded to which was not you as far as the apologist piece. I won’t doubt for a second that Castillo and Gray would have been difference makers last year. I want high performing vets around as well. But you you have to put that in the context of the rest of the team too. I was one of the more optimistic people going into last season and I thought the first half would be rough and the second half would see the Reds progress a la 2009. They took off way faster than anyone envisioned. It takes some hindsight to say Gray and Castillo would be part of the next good Reds team based upon what was reasonably foreseeable. Once 2022 was shot, it was time to trade Castillo. Mahle too.

The Reds have the money to add some higher end vets this off-season. I want them to do so. However, I’m not going to slam them if they improve the team significantly without spending some arbitrary high dollar amount. I said day one of the rebuild idc if the Reds spend a ton of money or not. Be competent and build a consistent winner. Listening to the Reds are constantly lying, are perpetually stupid, or don’t know what they’re doing is in contradiction to fast rise we saw as a result of the plan in place last year. Instead of saying hmm…maybe they deserve some rope based on early returns on the rebuild, a lot of people are doubling down on the same negative crap from 2 years ago if not longer.

[LiferJim]

You have been pretty fair as far as discussing things. I was speaking to the post that I originally responded to which was not you as far as the apologist piece. I won’t doubt for a second that Castillo and Gray would have been difference makers last year. I want high performing vets around as well. But you you have to put that in the context of the rest of the team too. I was one of the more optimistic people going into last season and I thought the first half would be rough and the second half would see the Reds progress a la 2009. They took off way faster than anyone envisioned. It takes some hindsight to say Gray and Castillo would be part of the next good Reds team based upon what was reasonably foreseeable. Once 2022 was shot, it was time to trade Castillo. Mahle too.

The Reds have the money to add some higher end vets this off-season. I want them to do so. However, I’m not going to slam them if they improve the team significantly without spending some arbitrary high dollar amount. I said day one of the rebuild idc if the Reds spend a ton of money or not. Be competent and build a consistent winner. Listening to the Reds are constantly lying, are perpetually stupid, or don’t know what they’re doing is in contradiction to fast rise we saw as a result of the plan in place last year. Instead of saying hmm…maybe they deserve some rope based on early returns on the rebuild, a lot of people are doubling down on the same negative crap from 2 years ago if not longer.

If were going to go by recent history, then what they did at last years trade deadline obviously didn't work. Most Reds fans get tired of excuses and want to see actual action, not empty promises. It appears to a lot of us that Mr. Krall is already making excuses again and prepping us fans for some more dumpster diving, when ownership has plenty of money available to spend this off season. If signing cheap mediocre veterans is their plan, then ownership should and no doubt will slammed. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but be prepared to be underwhelmed this off season.

[Old school 1983]

If were going to go by recent history, then what they did at last years trade deadline obviously didn't work. Most Reds fans get tired of excuses and want to see actual action, not empty promises. It appears to a lot of us that Mr. Krall is already making excuses again and prepping us fans for some more dumpster diving, when ownership has plenty of money available to spend this off season. If signing cheap mediocre veterans is their plan, then ownership should and no doubt will slammed. I certainly hope I'm wrong, but be prepared to be underwhelmed this off season.

Maybe last trade deadline did work. Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. It seems like the asking prices were pretty outrageous. Given the number of injuries and inning limits to the staff and the youth of the team it may have not made much long run sense to pay the high prices to get what likely would have been a first round boot. Especially knowing the vast majority of the young talent would be back and the payflex this off-season. And I’m really not seeing any excuses yet. Seems like Krall said the Reds have more to spend, are looking at free agents and are involved in trade talks. I expect some activity. It’s time.

[WrongVerb]

I think this is exactly what they do. Then they say they tried but just couldn't get it done. Some fans buy it and blame it on the chips not falling the right way.

Maybe it's not to the extreme in your example, but I think they low ball the best players and then pass it off as trying and it just not working out.

I'm reminded of the time Kevin Brown came on the market, wanting a 7 year deal. Bowden, likely tongue in cheek, offered $1M/yr for 7 years.

[Rdirtypirates]

Yeah. The same apologetic posters that saw the writing on the wall and understood a tear down was needed. The same ones that said the rebuild could bear fruit. And the same ones that caught hell from everyone else here for even suggesting that the Reds could possibly win the first trade with Seattle or that the rebuild would work. I’m not calling scoreboard yet, but things seem to be trending in the direction of those “apologists” being correct. Maybe when someone disagrees with you they aren’t an apologist for the front office. Maybe they just have a different view of what’s going on in the situation. Everyone here wants to see the Reds win. No one is cheering for the Castellini’s pocketbook. When someone calls someone else a liar, try bringing evidence other than they said we’d do this and then this didn’t happen. We all wish things were that black and white but they aren’t especially with as many moving parts as you have in a baseball off-season.

Ok let’s play devils advocate. Why was a tear down needed when they made the playoffs in 20 and could have made them in 21 if they spent anything on the bullpen. Why instead of a tear down couldn’t they spend a little bit of money and improve the team. They haven’t won a playoff series in30 years. You seem to be calling scoreboard which is ridiculous because they weren’t good. We were 19th in run differential. Yes someone is An apologist when no matter what a team does they will find an excuse. They didn’t spend money because this, they wanted to many prospects. To let you know the very definition of a lie is saying something and not doing it. Then their you go making more excuses about why he said something and didn’t do it. The only thing I agree on is we want the Reds to win I just want it now not when you ferl they are ready because they weren’t ready this year, so no sense trying when they were in first place.