2019 Bengals Season - The Post Marvin era begins

[UKFlounder]

That’s fair. He certainly had his flaws.

I admittedly may be looking at him too much compared to Shula, Coslet and LeBeau instead of to better coaches elsewhere. That said, 2011-15 was a pretty enjoyable stretch of time. Maybe I’ll again recall all the bad times soon enough.

I'll quibble a bit with this. Lewis saw some successes with his methods. But he never significantly improved on areas where he was failing (clock management, playing vets over more talented kids, halftime adjustments) and that ultimately led to the stagnation we've seen from his teams.

[KoryMac5]

I'm glad you liked him, but I couldn't take any more Marvin Lewis Conferences. He was always full of B.S.

I was like most fans in regards to marv happy for the first 5 yrs or so and then pretty apathetic towards the end...the point of the post was to paraphrase what was said during the press conference for those who did not get to listen lord knows our beat writers won't do it.

[Oxilon]

I don't think the Bengals are an unattractive landing spot for a Head Coach any more. Look what it takes to get fired? Can't find better job security in the NFL. Plus, Duke Tobin is one heck of a Scout. Most of the bad influence has been jettisoned in Alexander and Lewis. Mike Brown has improved in his willingness to fix holes through Free Agency every year. He authorized the drafting of a Center in the 1st Round last year. He extended Dalton to a team-friendly contract so he wouldn't have a Flacco situation. He stopped adding as many head-case players years ago. He authorized the hiring of some quality Coordinators outside the organization in recent years. That Gase didn't work out isn't Gase's full responsibility, nor do we know what really happened with Marvin "assisting" with the Defense on the Detroit hire, which looked good at the time. DeFelippo was an excellent hire by Minnesota, but that has been a flop so far. Trying to figure out why is difficult. Gase has not been given a chance on Offense.

I have to assume that Tobin will be involved in recommendations.

The Elephant in the room is Hue Jackson. We already know that his presence can be toxic. It was in Cincinnati for Jay Gruden. It was in Cleveland, clearly. He has to be let go, too. His voice is too strong and he's too stubborn. Those are poor leadership qualities and poor soldier qualities. He does not belong in Coaching at any level.

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I'll quibble a lot. Lewis was never, ever, a good Coach. He wasn't even worthy of his moniker, "Mediocre" Marv.

How do you know all of this?

Glad Marvin is gone but let's not pretend the real cause for the Bengals suckitude has suddenly dissipated either.

[KoryMac5]

Browns are way out in front requesting interviews with several coaches...

[RedTeamGo!]

I don’t know anything about Vance Joseph: why is this guy so despised? Seems like he got 2 years in Denver without an NFL QB.

[Kingspoint]

I can't believe how low the bar is set for Bengals' fans. They have been trained well.

"Marvin Lewis was at one time a good coach". Hogwash!

"I'll take Vance Joseph." Exscrews Me?

"Zimmer would be OK if Minnesota fires him." Uh, no.

Not accepting crap is what makes things get better. Accepting it perpetuates the problem. When fans finally stopped showing up, became apathetic, then Mike Brown became embarrassed. He has a lot of self-respect and paying customers is his gauge for measuring fan happiness. Whining doesn't matter. Empty seats do.

If Hue Jackson or Vance Joseph or another in-house name is made Head Coach, Mike Brown will base fans' acceptance of this decision by the number of empty seats.

So, we'll see what happens.

I can set the bar high, where it should be, and not show up if I lived there, and still have a high opinion of Mike Brown and the efforts he's made over the last 15 years. I've never seen him as the problem. I've always seen the fans as the problem for accepting what he's given them. It even extended to the County Commissioners. Their noses were so brown for him and they bent over backwards to give him whatever he wanted. They screwed the County's Citizens and thought nothing of it because the fans accepted that, too. They re-elected them.

Don't blame Mike Brown for the Bengals' woes. It's always been the fans' fault.

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Browns are way out in front requesting interviews with several coaches...

Cool. I really am not surprised. Mike Brown does want to win.

[Bob Sheed]

Browns are way out in front requesting interviews with several coaches...

The Cleveland Browns have ownership seeking more than "competitive". The lights are probably already out at PBS to save on utilities, I'll put it that way.

[Kingspoint]

How do you know all of this?

Glad Marvin is gone but let's not pretend the real cause for the Bengals suckitude has suddenly dissipated either.

How do I know all of this? I've documented every positive move Mike Brown and Dick Tobin have made over the last 15 years on this site and at the old bengalsjungle website, in addition to documenting every bad influence Marvin and Alexander have made over that time, each documentation discussed voraciously by Bengals' fans.

[KoryMac5]

How do I know all of this? I've documented every positive move Mike Brown and Dick Tobin have made over the last 15 years on this site and at the old bengalsjungle website, in addition to documenting every bad influence Marvin and Alexander have made over that time, each documentation discussed voraciously by Bengals' fans.

Lets not forget it was Mike Brown keeping Alexander here for all those yrs...

Mike Brown is still calling the shots which will keep some really good HC candidates away...

as for Duke Tobin he has to own the Ced, Fisher, and Ross picks...

[redsfandan]

Lots of names worth throwing out there. From the college level, the one guy that I would want above everyone else would be Chris Petersen, especially if Washington ends up beating Ohio State. He's an offensive guru. In the NFL, Zimmer would be great to have back. Jim Schwartz, I wouldn't mind. I'm sure there are some people here who would hate that hire, but he's done wonders in Philly. Dan Campbell, the Assistant HC/TE Coach of the Saints, will probably get interviews, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him fill one of these vacancies.

I doubt Mike Brown would pony up the dollars needed to pry a college coach away...some folks speculated on Riley or Brian Kelly but those names are doubtful due to the cash it would take to get them. The team released a statement reporting the search begins now and will take several weeks.

In the history of the Bengals they've only had 1 head coach that previously had success as a head coach before coming to Cincinnati: Paul Brown.

[Chip R]

This is a little bit of revisionist history. He was the hot coordinator after the Ravens Super Bowl win but was passed over multiple times (most notably in Tampa). He took the Redskins DC job for a year before finally landing the Bengals job. My point is that he probably would not have taken the Bengals job after the 2000 season because he was the hot name, but it was starting to feel like he was never going to get a shot so he was pretty much forced to take the Bengals job after the 2002 season.

Well, the point is that he wasn't just some jabroni who was hired because he worked cheap. Also he may have been passed over so much because he is African American. But last time they went outside the organization and hired someone with no ties to the Bengals or Mike Brown. At the time he was a well respected defensive coach. So there's hope the Bengals can get a well-regarded coach.

As for Marvin's legacy, he did very well his first few years here. Although any improvement at that time would look like a miracle. He had some bad breaks but ultimately I think he stayed several years too long and became almost an extension of the Brown family. But as Bengals fans well know, it's going to be difficult for anyone to be a successful head coach as long as the Browns are running things. Marvin may not have been the solution but he was only part of the problem.

[Oxilon]

How do I know all of this? I've documented every positive move Mike Brown and Dick Tobin have made over the last 15 years on this site and at the old bengalsjungle website, in addition to documenting every bad influence Marvin and Alexander have made over that time, each documentation discussed voraciously by Bengals' fans.

But how do you know it's Mike Brown's decision versus Marvin's, Duke's, etc...? This franchise has such a weird hierarchy and with no real transparency, I don't know who's actually making the front office decisions half the time.

[WVRed]

I don’t know anything about Vance Joseph: why is this guy so despised? Seems like he got 2 years in Denver without an NFL QB.

It’s continuity. He coached here under Marvin. Most fans (including myself) want a clean break from the Marvin regime and want fresh blood. Joseph wouldn’t be an improvement.

I want someone with a defensive background. We have some nice pieces on both sides of the ball, but fixing the defense is the top priority. Offense can manage as is for a year or two.

[WrongVerb]

I want a HC that instills a winning culture and can make the right personnel and game decisions when those decisions are needed.

I want a DC and OC who are strong at what they do and can get the most out of their personnel based on their schemes and philosophies.

[WrongVerb]

Years ago, the son of a friend of my mom's was going through an exclusive coaching feeder program while he was in his early 20s. I had the opportunity to talk with him about the differences between head coaches and coordinators. He said the biggest difference is that the HC doesn't get to be friends with the players. He's got to be the disciplinarian, and the guy who can make dispassionate choices without having to worry about hurting the feelings of someone he might like. The OC and DC, OTOH, tend to be the buddy-buddy type with the players. It's sort of an informal good-cop/bad-cop type of thing designed to get the most out of the players. Further, this son-of-friend said this is why so many DC and OC fail as HC: they don't have the capacity to switch from being the good cop to being the bad cop. They take the attitude that made them good coordinators and try to bring that to their HC jobs. The ones who can make that switch are the ones who tend to be successful.

So, be wary of bringing in someone who only has OC or DC experience.