Cincinnati soccer/MLS

[Sea Ray]

what is the joy of watching a team lose 90+ times a year? Being fan of a bad team is never fun (doesn't matter which sport).

This isn't about losing. It's about the sport itself

[bucksfan2]

My question is simple: What's the attraction to watching a sport that plays for two hours and in that time you might have 6 chances to score? I used the example of the Cincinnati team that's gone a month w/o scoring at all. That doesn't sound like entertainment to me

You data is flawed. For as much fun as the World Cup is to watch, they are hardly the best teams. Even the best WC teams are flawed when you break down their roster.

If you want to find out what people find enjoyable about a soccer game, watch the EPL on weekend mornings? Sometimes they can be boring and then all of a sudden they can be great. The Champions League is winding down, catch one of those games. Most EPL games are played in the AM over here, so you have your whole day ahead of you. I do it while I fold laundry or clean up from breakfast.

[Yachtzee]

As a fan of the Reds and Bengals, I have seen far worse teams than FC Cincinnati take the field. Sea Ray asks why anyone would find watching an expansion team that hasn't scored in 4 games appealing. Because it's a new team in its first season in MLS. There's hope that the team can and will improve. FC Cincinnati isn't burdened with the decades of futility that Cincinnati has seen from its other two "Major League" teams. If you want to see the potential for excitement in the sport, try watching a few LAFC games this season. They've been playing some highly entertaining soccer this season. Or better yet, go to an FC Cincinnati game, walk in with an open mind, and take in the game first hand. Get a feel for the rhythm and the flow of the game from the stands. If you want to understand the appeal of the sport, make an effort to take in the sport in person rather than sitting on the couch and taking potshots. If you don't want to do that, that's fine. Just don't expect anyone to be able to explain something to you over the internet when you aren't open enough to experience it for yourself.

[RedTeamGo!]

This isn't about losing. It's about the sport itself

I can’t believe people are engaging with this stuff

[membengal]

The ignore function people, genuinely, please, use it.

[Yachtzee]

What's so great about soccer? I defer to Ray Hudson:

https://youtu.be/4TP74zX5JZM

On a side note, I've often questioned why Fox or ESPN hasn't gone out and offered Ray Hudson whatever he wants to call games for MLS and the USMNT/World Cup. Granted, he gets to call games for one of the top leagues in the world now, but he would be a great draw for MLS TV coverage. Not only is he an exciting commentator, but he also played in the NASL and managed in the early years of MLS. If you listen to the Football Show on SiriusXM, he often has interesting stories from his days playing for the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers and managing the Miami Fusion and DC United.

[Yachtzee]

This isn't about losing. It's about the sport itself

Well if that's your attitude. . .

[M2]

I've grown to like soccer and have been to a few FCC games last year and one this year. The quality of play is markedly better this year. But the problem is, FCC is an expansion team and playing some very good sides. It will take a couple years for them to be truly competitive. Till then, I just enjoy the atmosphere and the quality of play. I hope Cinci fans understand and are patient.

You don't really have to be that patient. MLS is a league where an expansion team can go right to the head of the pack. Seattle, Atlanta and LAFC have all done it. Cincinnati, due to the incredible support for the team, is actually one of the league's bigger markets. The top of the East is the Phunion, DCU and Montreal, all of which have been terrible in the recent past. Status shifts quickly in this league, largely because no one has any squad depth.

Once you're in the league, you can win the league.

[Kingspoint]

You don't really have to be that patient. MLS is a league where an expansion team can go right to the head of the pack. Seattle, Atlanta and LAFC have all done it. Cincinnati, due to the incredible support for the team, is actually one of the league's bigger markets. The top of the East is the Phunion, DCU and Montreal, all of which have been terrible in the recent past. Status shifts quickly in this league, largely because no one has any squad depth.

Once you're in the league, you can win the league.

Portland did it, too.

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What's so great about soccer? I defer to Ray Hudson:

https://youtu.be/4TP74zX5JZM

On a side note, I've often questioned why Fox or ESPN hasn't gone out and offered Ray Hudson whatever he wants to call games for MLS and the USMNT/World Cup. Granted, he gets to call games for one of the top leagues in the world now, but he would be a great draw for MLS TV coverage. Not only is he an exciting commentator, but he also played in the NASL and managed in the early years of MLS. If you listen to the Football Show on SiriusXM, he often has interesting stories from his days playing for the Ft. Lauderdale Strikers and managing the Miami Fusion and DC United.

For the same reason they have had crappy analysts in all their sports.

[BuckeyeRed27]

Portland did it, too.

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For the same reason they have had crappy analysts in all their sports.

I would love Hudson, he’s awesome, but I do think Twellman and Holden respectively are really good analysts.

[M2]

A quick breakdown of MLS market tiers:

Big market teams - LAFC, LAG, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Toronto, NYCFC, Cincinnati

New stadiums, new fortunes? - DC, Minnesota

Smaller markets, but well run - Dallas, KC, RSL, NYRB (really should be NJRB)

Good market, suspect organization - Orlando, Vancouver

Unremarkable - Philly, Montreal, Columbus (hopefully recovering from the previous owner's attempts to snuff the team), Houston

Disasters - New England, Chicago, Colorado, San Jose

[Yachtzee]

A quick breakdown of MLS market tiers:

Big market teams - LAFC, LAG, Seattle, Portland, Atlanta, Toronto, NYCFC, Cincinnati

New stadiums, new fortunes? - DC, Minnesota

Smaller markets, but well run - Dallas, KC, RSL, NYRB (really should be NJRB)

Good market, suspect organization - Orlando, Vancouver

Unremarkable - Philly, Montreal, Columbus (hopefully recovering from the previous owner's attempts to snuff the team), Houston

Disasters - New England, Chicago, Colorado, San Jose

I would arrange them a bit differently, since market-size is based on population rather than how much a team spends.

If you want, you could break down the big markets into:

Big Markets, Big Money: LAFC, LAG, Atlanta, Toronto, NYCFC,
Big Markets, Run Like Small Market (But well): Dallas, NYRB
Big Markets, Run Like Meh: Philly, Houston
Big Markets, New Stadium=New Fortunes?: DC United
Big Markets, WTF: Chicago, New England

Then you have:
Mid-Market, Plays like a Big Market: Seattle
Mid-Markets, Meh: Orlando, Vancouver, Montreal
Mid-Markets, New Stadium=New Fortunes?: Minnesota United
Mid-Markets, WTF: Colorado

Then:
Small Market, Well Run: KC, RSL, Portland
Small Market, New Owners=New Fortunes?: Columbus
Small Market, too soon to tell: Cincinnati

Of the announced expansion teams, Miami would probably fall right on the line between Big Market/Mid-Market, Nashville and Austin would fall into the Small Market tier.

[M2]

I would arrange them a bit differently, since market-size is based on population rather than how much a team spends.

If you want, you could break down the big markets into:

Big Markets, Big Money: LAFC, LAG, Atlanta, Toronto, NYCFC,
Big Markets, Run Like Small Market (But well): Dallas, NYRB
Big Markets, Run Like Meh: Philly, Houston
Big Markets, New Stadium=New Fortunes?: DC United
Big Markets, WTF: Chicago, New England

Then you have:
Mid-Market, Plays like a Big Market: Seattle
Mid-Markets, Meh: Orlando, Vancouver, Montreal
Mid-Markets, New Stadium=New Fortunes?: Minnesota United
Mid-Markets, WTF: Colorado

Then:
Small Market, Well Run: KC, RSL, Portland
Small Market, New Owners=New Fortunes?: Columbus
Small Market, too soon to tell: Cincinnati

Of the announced expansion teams, Miami would probably fall right on the line between Big Market/Mid-Market, Nashville and Austin would fall into the Small Market tier.

It's an attendance/enthusiasm driven league. Local TV deals are worth squat. You make your money at the gate (and via sponsorships). Right now, and probably for the next decade at a minimum, metro population does not correlate to attendance and revenue. Seattle was 2nd in revenue in 2017 (last season's numbers aren't out yet), Portland was 4th, Orlando was 6th, SKC was 8th. Cincinnati should wade in somewhere ahead of Orlando this season. It may not be a be big market in 2050, but flaunt it while you got it in the 2020s. Enjoy this ride.

[bucksfan2]

I think FCC's challenge will come in a few years. What they have built over the past few seasons is pretty phenomenal. But once the climb is complete, how do they sustain the success they have had with the fan base. They started off with MLS dreams and then got MLS acceptance, but what happens when fans are no longer happy with just being in the MLS and they demand winning?

[Yachtzee]

I think FCC's challenge will come in a few years. What they have built over the past few seasons is pretty phenomenal. But once the climb is complete, how do they sustain the success they have had with the fan base. They started off with MLS dreams and then got MLS acceptance, but what happens when fans are no longer happy with just being in the MLS and they demand winning?

I think the next two transfer windows will be interesting to watch for both FC Cincinnati and Columbus. Both teams are planning on opening new stadia sometime in 2021(?), so the process of building the teams that will play in those stadia starts now. It will be interesting to how they approach things. FC Cincinnati is working its way up from an expansion side, but has the benefit of having a FO that has been in place and evaluating needs since its start in the USL. Meanwhile, the Crew has an established team, but has had to build up the FO in a very short period of time and has to deal with the intentional neglect the Crew suffered from under the previous regime. In any case, I think we'll see significant turnover in both squads over the next year and a half.