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Thread: I'm not missing Shogo

  1. #16
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    If Senzel breaks 100 games played this season I will be shocked.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    KronoRed (03-19-2021)


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  4. #17
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    With Castellanos and Senzel hitting and Winker as our LH hitting left fielder, I find myself not concerned about Shogo being out. He's almost reduced to a defensive replacement role (for me). After we lobbied so much for our first Japanese player it would not look good to trade him.

    If Cast has good season and opts out we might need him next year. Expensive back up plan.
    Yes, Shogo was clearly a mistake signing.
    The last 2 weeks (mainly against the Pirates) padded his stats up, but that OBP is not sustainable for him.
    He's basically Willie Tavares with less speed. I will even go far to say that if he wasn't Japaneese, the optimism
    level would not be so high. Everyone (included me) wanted him to be a huge success story, but not much hope that happens.
    It was a huge waste of money, as you have implied.
    Oh well, only 2 more years until he's gone.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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    JFLegal (03-20-2021)

  6. #18
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    People will get hurt, he'll play.
    Go Gators!

  7. #19
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by JaxRed View Post
    With Castellanos and Senzel hitting and Winker as our LH hitting left fielder, I find myself not concerned about Shogo being out. He's almost reduced to a defensive replacement role (for me). After we lobbied so much for our first Japanese player it would not look good to trade him.

    If Cast has good season and opts out we might need him next year. Expensive back up plan.
    wouldn't look good to trade him? how about it would be impossible to trade him. who wants a #4 outfielder who makes $7M per season?

    the fact of the matter is most japanese players fall far short of expectations when they come over to the big leagues.

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    Chip R (09-09-2021),mth123 (03-20-2021),REDREAD (03-20-2021)

  9. #20
    I wear Elly colored glass WrongVerb's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    I don't mind the Reds spending a few million on a fourth outfielder who could start for an extended period. Lining the bench with minimum wage, AAAA types is what listing teams do.
    Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. -- Carl Sagan (Pale Blue Dot)

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  11. #21
    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I don't mind the Reds spending a few million on a fourth outfielder who could start for an extended period. Lining the bench with minimum wage, AAAA types is what listing teams do.
    Same people complaining about Shogo are the same exact people that complain about players like Josh Van Meter being on the roster.
    What would you say.....ya do here?

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    Revering4Blue (03-20-2021),SirFelixCat (03-20-2021)

  13. #22
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by WrongVerb View Post
    I don't mind the Reds spending a few million on a fourth outfielder who could start for an extended period. Lining the bench with minimum wage, AAAA types is what listing teams do.
    This. The 99 team had Vaughn, Cameron, Tucker, Young AND Jeffery Hammonds. The 90 team had Hatcher, Davis, O'Neil, Braggs and Winingham. Davey Johnson's team always had 4-5 guys they could play at shortstop. If the knock is that they shouldn't spend money on depth then it's a silly knock.

    On the other hand if the knock is that they mis-evaluated his level of talent then I'm a little more sympathetic, but that's been a thorn in this franchises side for a long time.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

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    REDREAD (03-20-2021)

  15. #23
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Yes, Shogo was clearly a mistake signing.
    The last 2 weeks (mainly against the Pirates) padded his stats up, but that OBP is not sustainable for him.
    He's basically Willie Tavares with less speed. I will even go far to say that if he wasn't Japaneese, the optimism
    level would not be so high. Everyone (included me) wanted him to be a huge success story, but not much hope that happens.
    It was a huge waste of money, as you have implied.
    Oh well, only 2 more years until he's gone.
    Those 2 weeks were roughly 25% of his season. There’s really no conclusions to be drawn from less than 200 PA’s in a pandemic season. If he produces similar to Nori Aoki (high avg/OBP and low slg) he’s plenty solid for the money.
    Last edited by Griffey012; 03-20-2021 at 05:38 PM.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  16. #24
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTeamGo! View Post
    Same people complaining about Shogo are the same exact people that complain about players like Josh Van Meter being on the roster.
    The problem is that Shogo is not very good AND expensive.
    Van Meter was a bad player, but he was on a non guaranteed contract, making minimum salary. So yea, he did not perform (he was worse than Shogo), but he didn't cause a financial pinch. Was he a guy to upgrade from? Of course.
    That's the flaw in your logic. If Shogo was a solid #4 OF like Michael Tucker was, people might be unhappy about his salary, but they would be happy about his performance.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  17. #25
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Those 2 weeks were roughly 25% of his season. There’s really no conclusions to be drawn from less than 200 PA’s in a pandemic season. If he produces similar to Nori Aoki (high avg/OBP and low slg) he’s plenty solid for the money.
    Shogo did not show any power, that's going to kill his OBP. It's the same thing that doomed Billy Hamilton, more or less.
    Now Shogo makes better contact than Billy did, but he needs to find some power if he's going to succeed. Aoki had some pop.
    Is it possible Shogo finds some power this season? Sure, I just don't think it will happen though.
    I mean, seriously. If you had a choice of Shogo or 7 million to improve this team any way that you wanted to, would you pick Shogo?
    That's a good litmus test.

    And yes , I agree, if Shogo produces like Aoki did, it's a good signing.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  18. #26
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    I have no problem with Shogo the player but the signing is in the same category as Wade Miley for me. If there was a good chance you were going to have to make deep payroll cuts in a year, why on earth did you sign a 4th OF for 3/$21M and a 5th starter for 2/$15M? If you don't do that, maybe you could have afforded a SS or kept Iglesias around.

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    REDREAD (03-21-2021)

  20. #27
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    If there was a good chance you were going to have to make deep payroll cuts in a year, why on earth did you sign a 4th OF for 3/$21M and a 5th starter for 2/$15M?
    Because Reds didn’t foresee the pandemic when the big signings were made. Had Reds’ known about pandemic they wouldn’t have signed Shogo, Miley, Moustakas or Castellanos.

    Reds signed Moustakas and Miley in December 2019. Signed Shogo on January 6, 2020 and Cast on January 27.

    Within six weeks, on March 11, the WHO declared a global pandemic and the next day ST training was shut down.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-21-2021 at 08:57 AM.

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    757690 (03-21-2021),Chip R (09-09-2021),Griffey012 (03-21-2021),UKFlounder (03-21-2021)

  22. #28
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Because Reds didn’t foresee the pandemic.

    Had Reds’ known about COVID they wouldn’t have signed Shogo, Miley, Moustakas or Castellanos.

    Reds signed Moustakas and Miley in December. Signed Shogo on January 6, 2020 and Cast on January 27. Spring training was shut down on March 12, 2020. Something happened in the two month interim to dramatically change the equation.
    I'm aware of the pandemic. Thanks

    The Reds ownership has been historically cheap. I apologize if I just don't buy the pandemic being the reason for cost cutting

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    REDREAD (03-21-2021)

  24. #29
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I'm aware of the pandemic. Thanks

    The Reds ownership has been historically cheap. I apologize if I just don't buy the pandemic being the reason for cost cutting
    Bob was very clear in his interview this week. The cuts are to create a “reserve” against uncertainty for 2021 due to COVID.

    I agree the Reds have been cheap, but they didn’t spend in 2019-20 anticipating deep cuts in 2021. Why would they do that? These were all multi-year contracts.

    This time Reds were victimized by bad luck, unfortunate timing. That they are less able than other teams to withstand it is another issue.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-21-2021 at 09:25 AM.

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    Mitri (03-21-2021)

  26. #30
    Member Bourgeois Zee's Avatar
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    Re: I'm not missing Shogo

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Bob was very clear in his interview this week. The cuts are to create a “reserve” against uncertainty for 2021 due to COVID.
    This is his claim.

    What happens to that cash reserve if the pandemic eases?

    If the owners get it, we'll know he was full of crap.

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    REDREAD (03-21-2021)


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