2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[Todd Gack]

It's just a fundamental disagreement on the point of sports I guess. If I needed my teams to be champions every year I wouldn't watch sports at all. It would be a totally miserable experience.

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

[Bob Sheed]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

I agree with most of what you said but I think you open your argument up to be pidgin-holed when you phrase it in absolutes like that.

I think Mike Brown wouldn't mind winning the Super Bowl every year. It's just not worth it to him financially to invest any more than the bare minimum in non-cap related expenditures.

For me, "it would be nice" to own a new Tesla, for example. But it's not worth the cost of a Tesla, to me, to justify purchasing one. Others may feel differently. Maybe it's worth putting away 100 dollars a week toward a Tesla. To others, it might be worth it to them to go out and buy one right now, or perhaps devote 2000 dollars a week toward a new Tesla.

So again, to Mike Brown, winning a Super Bowl is not worth putting any more than the bare minimum into non-cap related expenditures. To other NFL owners, it's worth it to them to invest quite a bit into these expenditures. And that's really what it comes down to, as to why Mike Brown sucks so badly. He owns an NFL team. An entity that pretty much prints money. And he's being a cheapskate about it, in areas where other NFL owners are not.

And THAT is why the high water mark for the Bengals over the past 30 years, has been one-and-done in the playoffs.

But to say Mike Brown isn't trying to win, isn't really true. He's trying to win. The same way I'm trying to buy a Tesla by saving 100 dollars a week for a 50,000 dollar car.

As a fan, this realization is really worse than just saying "he's not trying." Because that's a pretty easy statement to debunk. He's trying. I guess. But he really should be trying a heck of a lot more. Which, of course, he will not do. And neither will his kids.

Plus, he values loyalty over merit, which also sucks, but that's a different conversation.

[Kingspoint]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

That is so true. I need to see some passion from the Owner. I'd much rather have Daniel Snyder. He's at least passionate about trying to win. The only passion I have ever seen from Katie and Troy is their passion for money and control. They have shown zero passion for trying to win, which is why they would ruin Joe Burrow and wouldn't care one iota about it.

[Kingspoint]

I agree with most of what you said but I think you open your argument up to be pidgin-holed when you phrase it in absolutes like that.

I think Mike Brown wouldn't mind winning the Super Bowl every year. It's just not worth it to him financially to invest any more than the bare minimum in non-cap related expenditures.

For me, "it would be nice" to own a new Tesla, for example. But it's not worth the cost of a Tesla, to me, to justify purchasing one. Others may feel differently. Maybe it's worth putting away 100 dollars a week toward a Tesla. To others, it might be worth it to them to go out and buy one right now, or perhaps devote 2000 dollars a week toward a new Tesla.

So again, to Mike Brown, winning a Super Bowl is not worth putting any more than the bare minimum into non-cap related expenditures. To other NFL owners, it's worth it to them to invest quite a bit into these expenditures. And that's really what it comes down to, as to why Mike Brown sucks so badly. He owns an NFL team. An entity that pretty much prints money. And he's being a cheapskate about it, in areas where other NFL owners are not.

And THAT is why the high water mark for the Bengals over the past 30 years, has been one-and-done in the playoffs.

But to say Mike Brown isn't trying to win, isn't really true. He's trying to win. The same way I'm trying to buy a Tesla by saving 100 dollars a week for a 50,000 dollar car.

As a fan, this realization is really worse than just saying "he's not trying." Because that's a pretty easy statement to debunk. He's trying. I guess. But he really should be trying a heck of a lot more. Which, of course, he will not do. And neither will his kids.

Plus, he values loyalty over merit, which also sucks, but that's a different conversation.

Yes. Mike Brown has been trying to win ever since he signed Lorenzo Neal to a contract. He got better at it every year until 15 months ago, which is why I don't think the last 15 months has been him running things. I still see no sign of him running things and all signs pointing to Katie and Troy.

This is the only franchise in the universe where the fans have no idea who is running the team. The Head Coach has to answer questions about player contracts. That's insane and ludicrous.

[Kingspoint]

I don't think Mike is retired (lol). From what I understand (read) he may be leaving more of the decision-making to the "team", but is still "around".

And this "team" didn't start taking over the reins until the beginning of the previous season. IF, and I say IF, Mike is leaving the decision-making responsibilities, direction of the organization, in their hands, then it's a small window IMO. OK. Fine. A big part of that team is Mike Brown's kids. And I'm sure, besides their formal education, they've learned a thing or two from Daddy. That does not mean they are necessarily going to run the organization exactly like Daddy.

I think Mike Brown ... yeah, stiff-necked, hard-headed Mike Brown (in his mid-80s) ... has seen the writing on the wall so to speak, the sentiment/attitude of the fans/city towards him and the organization, and that's why you're seeing a transition of power. May be hard to believe, but it's happening IMO. All things must pass.

I'm simply approaching this as giving them a shot. That's it. I'm still from Missouri (lol). This draft, and the upcoming season, IMO, is very critical - has the organization at a possible turning point - where one will know whether they're heading in the right direction. But understand. IMO, this team was better then that 2-14 record. I know. Ain't saying much, but I still contend, from an offensive side, they were decimated by injury, far more then a lack of talent. JMO.

The key issue/question moving forward is WHO is going to #1 recognize team weakness/needs, and #2 responsible, going forward, in evaluating and acquiring that talent? I'd say the answer is Tobin and Taylor. That is their forte. When it comes to negotiations, contracts, etc, then it falls to Katie (hubby). Kate has almost 30 years of experience, the first woman to be a chief contract negotiator in the NFL, and is respected around the league as an expert on the NFL's complicated salary-cap structure. IMO, when all is said and done, she will be the primary decision-maker, everything will "flow through her" at some point in the future when it comes to the final word.

Now will that be good or bad moving forward? Fasten your seat-belts and lets see.

But fans can't keep complaining about the level of talent this team goes after, the lack thereof, or settles on, not committed to winning .. while at the same time being a "counter-productive" element towards any future efforts they may make to improve the team (direction) by telling quality players they'd be stupid to come here, don't do it.

Fans keep saying "They're gonna blow this, I just know it. They're going to continue to screw this thing up. Same-o, same-o. Nothing changes".

You could very well be right. Lets see.

If this off-season, and so far it has with the lack of comments that need to be made from Ownership, plays out like last off-season, then we know who is running things.....Katie and Troy.

[Bob Sheed]

If this off-season, and so far it has with the lack of comments that need to be made from Ownership, plays out like last off-season, then we know who is running things.....Katie and Troy.

You mean the ones who were in Switzerland with their cellphones on silent at the trade deadline last season?

Super.

[Redsfaithful]

I'd much rather have Daniel Snyder.

good god I wouldn't

[GAC]

I've said this before but I had a lot of fun in all those playoff seasons. Lot of happy Sundays, especially once my oldest son started watching. This isn't real life, and because I DO remember the 90s I think I appreciate the good times in an appropriate way.

I just want a diversion. When they are 2-14 I don't even get that, but luckily they'll be competitive again with Burrow.

Most fans will see their favorite teams win a handful of championships in their entire life, unless they are fans of teams from a place like New York, LA, San Francisco, etc. The Bengals are never going to compete year in, year out for a Super Bowl unless they strike it rich with a Peyton Manning type of QB. That's the same situation a bunch of teams and cities find themselves in.

Cincinnati sports fans should be happy right now. The Reds are about to finally play competitive baseball again and the Bengals are about to get a franchise QB. It's not so bad folks.

The problem is we live in Ohia and root for Ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the Bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some Bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the Phantom Zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-de...from-2010-2018

12. Cincinnati: 75-67-2 Regular-season record (.528)

Last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the Bengals. Half the NFL last year finished under .500. Lets talk Detroit, Chicago, NY (both), Miami, Tennessee, and Washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the Bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many Bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A Super Bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the NFL. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the NFL IMO. The Bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "Mike Brown isn't committed to winning a Super Bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass Carson Palmer. I question Palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a Super Bowl" looking at who he signed with (AZ). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike Brown wasn't Palmer's worst enemy, nor, IMO, should he be Palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the Bengals and Cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any Bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to accomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish IMO.

[GAC]

It's not about winning Super Bowls or World Series. It's about the EFFORT of winning these things. I went down to Koch's Sporting Goods on Presidents Day and bought myself a Reds hat for myself a few shirts for my boys. I totally skipped over the Bengals section. Why? Because the Reds are ACTUALLY TRYING to win! The Bengals don't care about me. The Reds are trying to win and they're making money! It's a beautiful thing.


The fundamental difference between the Reds and Bengals is that when the Bengals were trying to win, they signed Dennis Roland, Nate Livings, and Kyle Cook to protect Carson Palmer.

The Reds signed Castellanos, Moustakas, and Shogo to protect Joey Votto.

That, my friend, pretty much explains the last 30 years of Bengaldom.

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

[North]

the problem is we live in ohia and root for ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the phantom zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-de...from-2010-2018




last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the bengals. Half the nfl last year finished under .500. Lets talk detroit, chicago, ny (both), miami, tennessee, and washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A super bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the nfl. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the nfl imo. The bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "mike brown isn't committed to winning a super bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise qb. Look what manning and luck did for indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a qb, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. Imo, that's just not so in cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... Because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass carson palmer. I question palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a super bowl" looking at who he signed with (az). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike brown wasn't palmer's worst enemy, nor, imo, should he be palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the bengals and cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to ac:dcomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish imo.

ok.

[Todd Gack]

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

Sounds like you’re more in the mold of “Super Bowl or Bust” more than anyone else here.

[Bob Sheed]

That "trying", that so-called "effort", has kept the Reds how many games under .500 and in last place in the division for how many years? Saying they're "ACTUALLY TRYING" really isn't saying much, nor have much weight to it IMO. What have they SHOWN. That's all that matters. Yeah, I like the signings. Don't mean to much to me until I actually see them accomplish something. IMO, that "window", if it's opening for the Reds, will also be closing real soon with FA's leaving over the course of the next season or so. We'll see how "committed" the Red's FO is. But they have BS'd their fans, been accused of being cheap and having their heads up their butts, just as much as the Bengals have over the years.

Until they actually prove otherwise, accomplish something, I wouldn't be holding the Reds up for an example for anyone (lol).

Last offseason (the one before this offseason) was the first time in 4 years that the Reds front office was even trying. Bryan Price's entire tenure was pretty much one big failed tank/rebuild.

With all due respect, GAC, you have no idea what you are talking about, in regard to Mike Brown.

[Redhook]

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

Agree, it is a golden opportunity. Who are you referring to about passing up the opportunity to draft Burrow? What Bengals fan wouldn’t want him? I don’t know any. I think it’s a slam dunk that they’ll draft him.

But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

Again, who are you referring to? The media? As fans, we want Burrow, but we also want Mike Brown to give Burrow a good chance of succeeding. Not much to ask for. And, really really really easy to accomplish with the cap space they have. There’s absolutely no reason whatsoever why they shouldn’t sign a right tackle and guard. We’ll see though.

[Kingspoint]

The problem is we live in Ohia and root for Ohia teams (lol).

Fans need to put the 90s behind them. They've allowed it to become an anchor, a "talking point", where that one lone decade (forever gone) still (in their minds) defines the Bengals and who they are. It's ridiculous. It's been 30 years ago (lol). I have to be honest. I've never seen a fan-base hold onto, wrap themselves around a decade like a python strangling the life out of it's prey, like some Bengal fans do with the 90s. It's like being sentenced to the Phantom Zone, to a dimension where you are forever, in misery, surrounded by the 90s with no escape. Nothing else matters or exists.

This article is from last year, and gives an "overall" evaluation of teams from 2010-18.... https://www.patriots.com/news/nfl-de...from-2010-2018




Last season's 2-14 record finally got them under .500 overall. But look around the league and do a "health evaluation" , and you'll find far more teams in worst shape then the Bengals. Half the NFL last year finished under .500. Lets talk Detroit, Chicago, NY (both), Miami, Tennessee, and Washington, just for starters. Look at the "battle" the Bengals had just to hold onto the #1 pick (lol). Yet listening to many Bengal fans, their team is an embarrassment and laughingstock of the league where no one wants to play. It's no contest. I just don't see it at that level.

A Super Bowl is a dim hope for a vast majority of the teams in the NFL. Simple fact. For most teams it's like "catching lightning in a bottle". In baseball anymore, it's about building for that small "window of opportunity" to take your shot because they don't come around that often. Same in the NFL IMO. The Bengals have had far more opportunities (post-season) then a lot of teams. The fact they were first round exits, though disappointing, shouldn't diminish that fact, nor lead fans to claim "Mike Brown isn't committed to winning a Super Bowl!". Do they realize how many teams fans could be saying that about?

This is a golden opportunity, for a market like Cincinnati, in the drafting of possibly a franchise QB. Look what Manning and Luck did for Indy? There's no guarantees; but you simply can't let this opp pass you by. It's not like he's going to a Cleveland team, from a few years ago, when they draft a QB, yet have no offensive support (talent) surrounding him. He's doomed. IMO, that's just not so in Cincy. And having the #1 pick in the first two rounds can do a lot to improve the fortunes of this team.

But some don't want to give them that chance... because they're stuck in the 90s.

I have zero, no respect, for whiny ass Carson Palmer. I question Palmer's judgment, and sincerity, on what it takes to be "committed to winning a Super Bowl" looking at who he signed with (AZ). An organization with a pretty spotty record, numerous coaching changes, and issues. Mike Brown wasn't Palmer's worst enemy, nor, IMO, should he be Palmer's scapegoat. He had some success with both the Bengals and Cardinals, the talent was there, made a few post-season appearances with both (lackluster performances), but injuries set him back more then anything until it forced him into retirement. I don't see how any Bengal fan can support what this bitter ex-player is trying to accomplish with his "vendetta"? Unprofessional and childish IMO.

no playoff wins.

Keep pumping that organ.

[Bob Sheed]

Everything Burrow said today was great. He's gonna be really fun to root for as a Bengal. They better not let Carolina steal him away.

One thing though. He's a big fan of 5 man protection. As in, no help from the TEs or RBs. So here we go...

- If the Bengals do nothing to improve the offensive line, and go with 5 man protection, you might as well give Burrow a blindfold and cigarette with this oline.
- If they do nothing to improve the offensive line, and don't go with 5 man protection, now Burrow is out of his element and won't be as effective. THIS is what I think the Bengals will do.
- If the Bengals do actually improve the offensive line, that will truly be something to get excited about.