2020 Cincinnati Bengals Offseason Thread

[GAC]

I hear you hummin’. And, I understand what Carson is doing and why many don’t like him.

I’m of a different opinion though, similar to Bob Sheed. For the Bengals to be better long-term, drastic changes have to be made. These changes won’t happen unless they’re forced to make them, most likely from the NFL.

But what should those "changes" be? Is Mike Brown's approach - his cheapness and "all business-like manner" that is the source of fan's frustration/anger - in violation of NFL policy where the NFL needs to intervene? And do what?

I'm not very knowledgeable on salary cap regulations, etc. But the NFL set the guidelines/framework by which all the teams must operate, and yes, even play the game. Is it the fact the Bengals aren't spending that cap space, being tight-fisted, the reason?

It looks like Mike Brown has been stepping back for the last couple of years, passing it on to his progeny. Taylor was Katie's pick, and they gave Taylor complete control over the draft. All I've said is there appears to be a "changing of the guard", and lets see what happens? This upcoming draft is not only important because of the quality of player(s) available that could greatly improve the team's direction; but it will possible give another sign that this "new" ownership is giving their HC (and staff) more control and say.

Hence, the reason why I love seeing anything negatively commented about Brown, their history of jock straps, the inside of the stadium, practice facilities, lowest number of scouts, etc.

Even to the detriment that it costs your team a shot at possibly one of the best QB prospects to come around in awhile, who can turn this team's fortunes in the right direction, just so one can say "Take that Mike Brown!!"?

They’re an embarrassment to the league. A laughingstock. The Bengals attendance numbers cost the other owners money. It has to upset them. Maybe, just maybe, if enough negativity comes out of the trenches, more rules will be set in place for the bottom feeders of the NFL. That’s the hope I'm banking on because Burrow alone can’t change it.

I'm sorry. But there is no way I'm letting you steal that title, that crown, from my beloved Browns. Nobody has worked harder, put their best foot forward, at being the league's laughingstock or embarrassment longer (LMAO)

In the last decade, how many post-season appearances have the Bengals made? Seven? It doesn't matter that you lost every game. You qualified for the post-season, and did so with some good teams who put up some good records, won some division titles (and in a tough division).

Have you had an 0-16 season yet? Brown fans are coming up on the 20th anniversary of their only post-season appearance - went 9-7 and a first round exit to the Steelers.

I'm not making light of the Bengal's situation, and attitude toward's it's owner. Fully justified. But who has really had the worst owner? And the thing is - the Browns have spent big time, yet still look where they're at?

I understand the hatred. Just don't let that hatred drive one to the point where you're siding with someone who wants to damage your team and hinder any future or change in direction by (basically) telling the top draft pick - Don't Go There!

[Redsfaithful]

Mike Brown has been laughing at Bengals fans like you for 3 decades. He's done the bare minimum and still won more than the Browns and yet, that is somehow supposed to make me feel better? Think about what if Mike Brown had an oz of competence or integrity to actually try and win by opening his check book. I honestly can't believe we actually have Bengals fans like you and on Twitter saying "Hey man, the Browns are worse than us!"

Congrats to us fans for winning more regular season games than the Browns.

I think Mike Brown is one of the worst owners in all of sports.

You're just setting up and knocking down strawmen here, I'm not gloating that the Bengals have been better than the Browns, I'm pointing out the Bengals just had a better decade than half the NFL so pinning hopes on the NFL stepping in to make changes is ridiculous.

[Redhook]

But what should those "changes" be? Is Mike Brown's approach - his cheapness and "all business-like manner" that is the source of fan's frustration/anger - in violation of NFL policy where the NFL needs to intervene? And do what?

I'm not very knowledgeable on salary cap regulations, etc. But the NFL set the guidelines/framework by which all the teams must operate, and yes, even play the game. Is it the fact the Bengals aren't spending that cap space, being tight-fisted, the reason?

It looks like Mike Brown has been stepping back for the last couple of years, passing it on to his progeny. Taylor was Katie's pick, and they gave Taylor complete control over the draft. All I've said is there appears to be a "changing of the guard", and lets see what happens? This upcoming draft is not only important because of the quality of player(s) available that could greatly improve the team's direction; but it will possible give another sign that this "new" ownership is giving their HC (and staff) more control and say.



Even to the detriment that it costs your team a shot at possibly one of the best QB prospects to come around in awhile, who can turn this team's fortunes in the right direction, just so one can say "Take that Mike Brown!!"?



I'm sorry. But there is no way I'm letting you steal that title, that crown, from my beloved Browns. Nobody has worked harder, put their best foot forward, at being the league's laughingstock or embarrassment longer (LMAO)

In the last decade, how many post-season appearances have the Bengals made? Seven? It doesn't matter that you lost every game. You qualified for the post-season, and did so with some good teams who put up some good records, won some division titles (and in a tough division).

Have you had an 0-16 season yet? Brown fans are coming up on the 20th anniversary of their only post-season appearance - went 9-7 and a first round exit to the Steelers.

I'm not making light of the Bengal's situation, and attitude toward's it's owner. Fully justified. But who has really had the worst owner? And the thing is - the Browns have spent big time, yet still look where they're at?

I understand the hatred. Just don't let that hatred drive one to the point where you're siding with someone who wants to damage your team and hinder any future or change in direction by (basically) telling the top draft pick - Don't Go There!

Boy, we really got the shortest straws as Ohio fans. It's incredible how bad the two teams have been over the last 30 years. The Bengals of the 90's have scarred me for life. Currently, it feels like the 90's again.

As far as what the NFL could do. It's very very very unlikely they'd do anything unless it gets back to the 90's ineptitude. What could they do? Raise the cap floor, raise the number of scouts a team must have, require a GM that's not an owner, limit the amount of revenue sharing for bottom feeders, penalize teams that don't sell out......I'm just spit-balling stuff. And, it all boils down to money. But, it's clear the Bengals don't try and they're hurting the NFL brand and overall revenue.

Regarding Mike Brown's successors. It's terrifying. They learned directly from him, not his father who at least had a clue about football. Just thinking about how ignorant they must be compared to the rest of the NFL gives me shivers. Maybe, just maybe, they'll realize they need a lot more outside help once he's gone because there isn't a snowballs chance hell they'll be successful without it.

Here's something to ponder. If the Browns had the first pick this year, would past players and the media being do what they're doing to the Bengals right now? I bet not. And the reason is Mike Brown. Even with the brief success the Bengals had with their playoff run, they're still a joke nationwide because of one man. We can go back and forth about who's had the worst owners. Maybe it's a tie, but IMO, Brown is the worst of all time. At least the Cleveland Browns, at times, act like they're trying. They're not smart about what they're doing, but showing a little effort helps. Mike Brown gives no effort and couldn't care less about winning or the fans. Cincinnati fans don't ask more much. Just try. Mike Brown is the anti-Pete Rose, the player.

[Redsfaithful]

Maybe it's better this way, at least we have an explanation. It has to be maddening being a Browns fan, because there's just no reason they shouldn't be an average NFL team.

[Todd Gack]

I knew when I typed it, you'd focus on the towels.

For the record, Ki-Jana and Willie Anderson also bought jock straps too.

[Todd Gack]

Can we talk about Zac Taylor's embarrassing letter to fans asking for them to buy season tix?

[Bob Sheed]

Can we talk about Zac Taylor's embarrassing letter to fans asking for them to buy season tix?

I wouldn't say it was embarrassing.

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Naive? Absolutely. If Joe Burrow isn't Andrew Luck Part II, then you can mark it down, Zac Taylor will be Dave Shula Part II. I wonder if he knows that. I would honestly be surprised if he even knows who Dave Shula is.

[Todd Gack]

I wouldn't say it was embarrassing.

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Naive? Absolutely. If Joe Burrow isn't Andrew Luck Part II, then you can mark it down, Zac Taylor will be Dave Shula Part II. I wonder if he knows that. I would honestly be surprised if he even knows who Dave Shula is.

I can't imagine penning a letter to this fanbase and writing the words "draft capital" and "we have the 1st pick in every round" without laughing.

My biggest issue is that for as much time as he spent talking about the draft in his letter, he uttered zero words about how else to improve the team. So in other words, it seems like status quo.

[GAC]

Regarding Mike Brown's successors. It's terrifying. They learned directly from him, not his father who at least had a clue about football. Just thinking about how ignorant they must be compared to the rest of the NFL gives me shivers. Maybe, just maybe, they'll realize they need a lot more outside help once he's gone because there isn't a snowballs chance hell they'll be successful without it.

How well do you know Katie Blackburn? She has close to 20 years of experience in the NFL, and is considered an expert on the complicated NFL salary cap structure, and seen as an experienced negotiator. The fact that she learned some things from her Dad doesn't mean she's not going to forge her own way with this organization. Again, look at the control she gave Taylor on draft decision-making. Would her Dad have done that? When I look around the NFL front offices, with over half the teams in the league trying to get to .500, there's a lot of "ignorance" to be found. At the end of every season it's musical chairs as front offices clean house.

The Marvin Lewis Era is over ... the Dalton Saga is over ... the Mike Brown Era is rapidly closing .... and the Katie Blackburn, Zac Taylor, and maybe Burrow Era begins. I have no idea how it's going to turn out, but it is change, and I think it simply needs to be given a chance to succeed, see where they go from here. IMO. Every Bengal fan WILL KNOW by this upcoming draft whether they are taking the positive steps forward. It begins, but does not end, with Burrow.

Yet you, and others, don't want to give them that chance - and are siding with a guy (simply because of your shared hatred) who is trying to insure your team doesn't get any better by keeping quality draft picks from coming here. Is convincing Burrow not to come here a good or bad thing for Bengal fans? I think the answer is obvious. So I'm not going to allow my hatred or distrust of the owner to force me into a position of telling any quality draft picks (players) - "Don't come Here!" and pretty much killing any chances for improvement.

Here's something to ponder. If the Browns had the first pick this year, would past players and the media being do what they're doing to the Bengals right now? I bet not

ex-Brown players didn't have to step up and say anything to try and dissuade draft picks from going to Cleveland because the Brown's management took care of it themselves by either passing over that star QB or trade the pick to stockpile them (lol). But to answer your question ... No. While there were many ex-Brown players who publicly complained about the bad culture in Cleveland, and not liking to play there - I never heard ex-Brown players trying to publicly dissuade draft picks from going there. Maybe because it's not the proper behavior for ex-players to be doing?

But Randy Lerner caught hell for his entire tenure from the media and the fan-base that wanted him gone. I was one.

The only reason the media is jumping all over this, making it a "headline", is because of Carson starting his perfectly timed "campaign" of running his mouth during SB week. He started this whole thing. Carson's whole objective is to inflict some level of personal vengeance (revenge) on Mike Brown and the Bengals by convincing Burrow not to go there so he can sit on the front porch of his ranch in Idaho peeling potatoes with a big smile on his face -"Take that Mike Brown!"

If that occurs? Are the Mike Brown haters going to feel good about themselves?

[GAC]

Maybe it's better this way, at least we have an explanation. It has to be maddening being a Browns fan, because there's just no reason they shouldn't be an average NFL team.

I've maintained my composure for 55 years now (LOL).

[GAC]

Short-sighted? Maybe. Marvin Lewis never went 2-14. Zac Attack could be referring to the losing culture he himself has created, but I doubt it.

Your first year (rookie) head coach who inherited a team that was in a huge downward spiral, had many issues needing addressed he didn't create, and injury riddled to boot, CREATED the losing culture???

You owe me a keyboard Bob! LOL

Yeah. If one doesn't turn the Bengals around in their first year on the job they should be fired I guess!

You're not being fair to Taylor at all IMO. Too small of a window.

[Boss-Hog]

GAC, a couple points: Zach Taylor doesn't have control over the draft - that belongs to their defacto GM, Duke Tobin. Tobin and his (small) team appear to have assumed more control following Marvin being brought back in 2011 when Carson was demanding a trade. Taylor undoubtedly has input on the draft, but so has every coach who has ever worked for Mike Brown, and I'd imagine Taylor has less input than Marvin considering the equity Marvin built up with Brown over the years.

Katie was one of the people, if not the primary person, leading the recent coaching search, but I think you're making it sound a bit too much like it was solely her decision. Mike has been increasingly transitioning authority to Katie, Troy, Paul Brown and Tobin to assume his responsibilities for quite some time (long before last offseason), and those four were collectively in charge of the Taylor hire. As his oldest child, Katie is probably the most well known out of the group, but she's definitely not the only one making these decisions. The final decisions still go through Mike, but those four run the team on a day-to-day basis.

[Bob Sheed]

So Mike Brown has been transitioning his GM duties to
Katie, Troy, Paul and Duke.

Tobin has the best resume there.
The rest of them have zero qualifications to be in that role.

Besides the spoils of nepotism anyway.

I look at a guy like John Lynch in SF in comparison. Or Decosta in Baltimore.

And then the results of all three make perfect sense.

[Boss-Hog]

So Mike Brown has been transitioning his GM duties to
Katie, Troy, Paul and Duke.

Tobin has the best resume there.
The rest of them have zero qualifications to be in that role.

Besides the spoils of nepotism anyway.

I look at a guy like John Lynch in SF in comparison. Or Decosta in Baltimore.

And then the results of all three make perfect sense.

In terms of the transition, I was referring to ownership of the team as a whole - not specifically the general manager. I think Tobin and his staff make most of the personnel decisions with Mike and Paul Brown also involved, but I don't think Katie and Troy are overly involved with those decisions. I've heard numerous times that Katie manages the cap, and they're both involved with contract negotiations, but I don't think Katie and Troy are deciding who the Bengals draft. Their focus seems to be on ownership matters not related to personnel, which is why the team sends Duke Tobin to be the team's spokesperson for anything related to personnel.

[Spanky]

In terms of the transition, I was referring to ownership of the team as a whole - not specifically the general manager. I think Tobin and his staff make most of the personnel decisions with Mike and Paul Brown also involved, but I don't think Katie and Troy are overly involved with those decisions. I've heard numerous times that Katie manages the cap, and they're both involved with contract negotiations, but I don't think Katie and Troy are deciding who the Bengals draft. Their focus seems to be on ownership matters not related to personnel, which is why the team sends Duke Tobin to be the team's spokesperson for anything related to personnel.

They just recently started letting Duke do more of the national stuff (like within the past couple of seasons.) usually it was just the head coach IIRC