What's Making Me Angry Today - Tejay Antone Edition

[traderumor]

I agree on 2019.

Please show me how he was unreliable in 2020.

In the 2020 regular season, Iglesias pitched 22 times and allowed 0 earned runs 18 times. Please show me how that was unreliable.

He had a good September. It was a short season, August was more of 2019.

[757690]

This whole save situation thing is so overblown. The Reds have about 4 innings per game to cover from the pen. If I have a guy who I know is good in that situation, I'm happy to use him that way and only have three innings to worry about. Currently, the Reds have Sims and Antone. Those guys can cover maybe 2 innings per day. Some days they can't cover any, but the Reds aren't always winning, so they don't need them every day. Having another guy who can account for one of those innings, suree make it easier to go to Antone in the 6th with guys on base and the opponents best bats due up. They do that now, chances are high, they;ll just blow it later when Antone is no longer in there and Sims isn't available because he was used yesterday.

In addition, leaving the 9th inning to Garrett over-exposed him, now he's kind of shell shocked and pretty useless. He was a great weapon to match up against lefties when a big out was needed. Had the Reds kept Iglesias and left the 9th inning to him, I think they'd have a solid pen with Iglesias, Antone, Sims and a still useful Garrett. I'm guessing the season would look a whole lot different at this point.

You can keep telling me that getting a journeyman reliever who was cut at the end of Spring Training for him was a good deal. I think it was a tanking move that killed the season and its the main reason I think they should go ahead and deal some other guys and load up with some cheaper production for next year. Funny thing is, I don't even like Iglesias, but dealing him for nothing the way they did sunk this season IMO.

First, my post was only about yesterday’s game. I don’t think having Iglesias would have effected yesterday’s game and I explained why.

Second, the problem with your logic is that no team can only use a closer in save situations. They have to be able to use him is a tie game or early in the game in high leverage situations. You point that there are so many more innings for a pen to cover these days, and then say the Reds could limit themselves to use Iglesias in only one very specific situation and never in any other situation. You can’t have it both ways.

The Reds for years and the Angels this year saw how impossible your solution is to execute. If you have Iglesias on the roster, he is going to have to be used in non save situations, and he will melt down in most of those. On top of that, his diva attitude disrupts the pen and the whole team.

[Kc61]

My bad on 20%, that was me half asleep. I appreciate your opinion, but I watched him long enough here to have an opinion. I am just not a fan and thinks he only succeeds im the most perfect situation. Again, it was clearly a salary dump, addition by substraction. Let't not forget he is pitching in a park twice the size of GABP.

In terms of the Angels, he seems to have adjusted. Last five outings, seven innings, scoreless, 12 Ks, 0 BBs.

With the Reds he had a period in 2018-19 of extreme fly ball pitching, lot of homers. And closers are generally controversial, their mistakes are magnified by pitching close and late.

The only thing I object to is the notion by some that overall Iggy was a lousy pitcher for the Reds. It’s a gross exaggeration, and I don’t find it to be a credible opinion.

[Kc61]

He had a good September. It was a short season, August was more of 2019.

In August 2020, Iglesias pitched 10 times. He was scoreless in 9.

If you mean his first two outings in July weren’t good, agree. But after that he allowed no earned runs in 18 of 20 outings. Among relievers, second best fWAR in NL for 2020 season.

[757690]

I agree on 2019.

Please show me how he was unreliable in 2020.

In the 2020 regular season, Iglesias pitched 22 times and allowed 0 earned runs 18 times. Please show me how that was unreliable.

You keep conveniently leaving out the playoffs. In 2020, he gave up runs in 5 of 24 appearances. He failed 21% of the time. That’s unreliable for a closer.

[757690]

In August 2020, Iglesias pitched 10 times. He was scoreless in 9.

How was his July? I mean if you looked up his August, you had to see how he did in July.

[Kc61]

How was his July? I mean if you looked up his August, you had to see how he did in July.

Look at my post two slots up.

Two bad outings in July. Then 18 of 20 outings with zero earned runs.

[Thisyear]

In terms of the Angels, he seems to have adjusted. Last five outings, seven innings, scoreless, 12 Ks, 0 BBs.

With the Reds he had a period in 2018-19 of extreme fly ball pitching, lot of homers. And closers are generally controversial, their mistakes are magnified by pitching close and late.

The only thing I object to is the notion by some that overall Iggy was a lousy pitcher for the Reds. It’s a gross exaggeration, and I don’t find it to be a credible opinion.

Given a good situation I would say he was a great pitcher, give him a situation that was non close and he was putrid. I wish someone better than me at that stuff could get those numbers. I haven't watched him with Angels best of luck to him, I am just glad he is not in a reds uniform anymore.

[Kc61]

You keep conveniently leaving out the playoffs. In 2020, he gave up runs in 5 of 24 appearances. He failed 21% of the time. That’s unreliable for a closer.

I disagree. Zero earned runs in 19 of 24 outings is quite reliable for any pitcher.

And since when do we merge regular season with playoff numbers? You never see that in baseball. I guess unless you’ve got nothing else to argue.

As for the playoffs, in game one Iggy was superb, 1.1 innings, 4 Ks, scoreless. He came in behind in the second game and wasn’t good. Was a rarity for him last year.

[JFLegal]

I agree on 2019.

Please show me how he was unreliable in 2020.

In the 2020 regular season, Iglesias pitched 22 times and allowed 0 earned runs 18 times. Please show me how that was unreliable.

facts always get in the way of the "iggy sucks dude" argument.

[redsfan9988]

The Iglesias trade was an unconscionably stupid abomination. It was an absolutely desperate salary dump. You can argue over how effective he was in his role[, but what you can't argue is that this bullpen is better off with Carson Fullmer, Heath Hembree, and the parade of other sub-AAA dudes that - while I'm sure they're trying their best - can't come close to replicating the results of Iglesias in any role. The error in logic that some of you are making is forgetting the alternative. You might not like Iglesias's penchant for walking dudes and giving up homers - but you should like it a lot more than Michael Feliz and Brad Brach has-been-ing and never-was-ing thier way into letting 8 consecutive men reach and blowing a 7-run lead.

The non-tendered Archie Bradley too...

[757690]

The Iglesias trade was an unconscionably stupid abomination. It was an absolutely desperate salary dump. You can argue over how effective he was in his role[, but what you can't argue is that this bullpen is better off with Carson Fullmer, Heath Hembree, and the parade of other sub-AAA dudes that - while I'm sure they're trying their best - can't come close to replicating the results of Iglesias in any role. The error in logic that some of you are making is forgetting the alternative. You might not like Iglesias's penchant for walking dudes and giving up homers - but you should like it a lot more than Michael Feliz and Brad Brach has-been-ing and never-was-ing thier way into letting 8 consecutive men reach and blowing a 7-run lead.

The non-tendered Archie Bradley too...

I did argue that the bullpen and the team is better off without Iglesias in many posts, the most recent is post #122. Many others have argued the same thing.

You may disagree with us, but you can’t say there is no argument over this issue. In fact, it’s quite clear that there is a very strong argument on both sides of this issue.

[redsfan9988]

I did argue that the bullpen and the team is better off without Iglesias in many posts, the most recent is post #122. Many others have argued the same thing.

You may disagree with us, but you can’t say there is no argument over this issue. In fact, it’s quite clear that there is a very strong argument on both sides of this issue.

Yeah... again... you can absolutely argue that Iglesias sucks or is ill-suited for high-leverage usage. I don’t agree, but he’s failed enough to allow for a credible argument to be made. What you absolutely cannot argue in good faith is the that this year’s Cincinnati Reds bullpen is better than it would be it still had Iglesias. His numbers are several standard deviations better than the aggregate of this dumpster-fire bullpen. There’s absolutely no way it’s mathematically possible for him to make this unit worse. And they traded him for bag of screwdrivers and a $5 gift card to Hollywood Video. Unacceptable.

[mth123]

Even if Iglesias sucks as much as some here seem to think, he's still a better pitcher than everyone in the Reds bullpen not named Antone. Its not even up for debate. Trading him away hurt the team.

[M2]

Add in his postseason work and Iglesias' 2020 comes out to a 3.65 ERA and a 1.1 HR/9, which looks a whole lot more like Raisel Iglesias. Basically, he was one crooked outing away from his normal uninspired self. It came in the playoffs against the Braves, so we pretend it doesn't count, even though it kind of counts more. Never going to miss him.