COVID-19, Part VIII - heading into flu season

[M2]

But eating at sports bars did not lead to retirement home outbreaks.

The hell it didn't. People pass around the insanely contagious disease in indoor settings then unknowingly spread it to others until it hits those who are most vulnerable. You provide it a breeding ground where people gather and then they disseminate it all over the place. I've literally been in meetings with epidemiologists who estimate that if my state had closed down the bars before the pre-St. Patrick's Day weekend, our death total would be at least 2,000 people lower.

[Coopdaddy67]

State of emergency exceptions have worked in nearly every state. I’m not sure why it wouldn’t work on a federal level. But even they didn’t, the federal government, in coordination with the experts, unrolling a large, loud campaign to shut down state by state, would have been well received and enforced by nearly every state.

When we remember that nearly all the cases were happening in NYC at the beginning, it’s not controversial to believe that this pandemic could have been controlled had we re-acted quickly and decisively as soon as we learned about it. But it required national leadership from the beginning which we still haven’t received.

I don't want to get into the politics of it, but a large chunk of the population would not have gone along with anything suggested by a Governor or a President. We've seen that all year long. Declaring a state of emergency doesn't give states or the feds carte blanche. The courts have stepped in multiple times already. If some of the more severe lockdown measures we've seen implemented overseas were attempted here, the courts would shut them down.

Once in got out of China and into Europe, there was no controlling this virus internationally. Once it got to NYC (it was already in other parts of the US), mass transit took care of the rest. It's always been about mitigation.

[BernieCarbo]

The hell it didn't. People pass around the insanely contagious disease in indoor settings then unknowingly spread it to others until it hits those who are most vulnerable. You provide it a breeding ground where people gather and then they disseminate it all over the place. I've literally been in meetings with epidemiologists who estimate that if my state had closed down the bars before the pre-St. Patrick's Day weekend, our death total would be at least 2,000 people lower.

Yes, back then, but not now because masks are mandated along with numerous other safeguards. The state has determined that the recent surge in cases has been due to private gatherings and not restaurants.

[Bob Sheed]

I doubt anyone unable to think more than one move ahead is going to be able to comprehend:

- the asymptomatic spread of COVID from one person to another person
- who then visits an elderly or compromised loved one, then spreads it to the elderly or compromised loved one,
- where it is then no longer asymptomatic and is instead, deadly to that elderly or compromised loved one.

Too many crazy twists and turns there to not get confused.

[BernieCarbo]

I doubt anyone unable to think more than one move ahead is going to be able to comprehend:

- the asymptomatic spread of COVID from one person to another person
- who then visits an elderly or compromised loved one, then spreads it to the elderly or compromised loved one,
- where it is then no longer asymptomatic and is instead, deadly to that elderly or compromised loved one.

Too many crazy twists and turns there to not get confused.

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t understand that. Many people take it upon themselves to shield themselves from vulnerable relatives. Many of them haven’t seen their loved ones for months. You have too many drunk posts today.

[kaldaniels]

Totally cool, I definitely wasn't trying to attack the boomers. The will to live is strong. Every generation may end up acting the same way just due to survival instinct alone.

Curious what you mean by "COVID fear" though. I was speaking more to "the powers that be" dictating policy.

We may be talking past each other as I like what you had written.

But anecdotally it seems the GenX/Millennials are more of the "COVID could kill Grandma/COVID could kill me" crowd. While Boomers are more of the "it is what it is, I'll take my chances." So while the Boomers in charge are often the ones with the "lockdownish" decrees...it seems the younger crowds are more taking heed (and/or panicking), while the older (healthy, not really really old) crowd dismisses the risk.

To me, more than anything, common sense precaution needs to be used. I never want that thought to be missed.

[M2]

Yes, back then, but not now because masks are mandated along with numerous other safeguards. The state has determined that the recent surge in cases has been due to private gatherings and not restaurants.

How are you wearing a mask when you're eating and drinking?

[M2]

We may be talking past each other as I like what you had written.

But anecdotally it seems the GenX/Millennials are more of the "COVID could kill Grandma/COVID could kill me" crowd. While Boomers are more of the "it is what it is, I'll take my chances." So while the Boomers in charge are often the ones with the "lockdownish" decrees...it seems the younger crowds are more taking heed (and/or panicking), while the older (healthy, not really really old) crowd dismisses the risk.

To me, more than anything, common sense precaution needs to be used. I never want that thought to be missed.

As a species, Boomers tend to think they're immortal.

[Bob Sheed]

Yes, back then, but not now because masks are mandated along with numerous other safeguards. The state has determined that the recent surge in cases has been due to private gatherings and not restaurants.

Yep.

Queue Pence on 60 Minutes tonight, saying he will be having his usual Thanksgiving gathering, but other folks can make their own decisions based on what they think is best.

Seemingly innocuous, right?

[Bob Sheed]

I don’t know anyone who doesn’t understand that. Many people take it upon themselves to shield themselves from vulnerable relatives. Many of them haven’t seen their loved ones for months. You have too many drunk posts today.

Not a drop for me today. Or most days. You must be thinking of someone else.

Because there are quite a few folks who are exactly as I described. One of them will be along shortly, I imagine.

[BernieCarbo]

How are you wearing a mask when you're eating and drinking?

You aren’t. But when you are eating and drinking, you are not near others. The lead authority on Covid here is very vulnerable and even his doctor said no problem as long as the place is following the mandate.

Right now I am out watching the WS. There are maybe 40 people here, and no table is within ten feet of each other. The servers wear masks and everything is sanitized. But in a private setting, all rules are broken. If you have a problem with the governor’s conclusions, talk to him, but he has said repeatedly that private gatherings such as parties, weddings, etc are the problem.

Look, I would have had no problem with a true lockdown back in March, but the government concluded that McDonalds was an essential business and take out was essential, so it’s too late to back off now.

[Wonderful Monds]

You aren’t. But when you are eating and drinking, you are not near others. The lead authority on Covid here is very vulnerable and even his doctor said no problem as long as the place is following the mandate.

Right now I am out watching the WS. There are maybe 40 people here, and no table is within ten feet of each other. The servers wear masks and everything is sanitized. But in a private setting, all rules are broken. If you have a problem with the governor’s conclusions, talk to him, but he has said repeatedly that private gatherings such as parties, weddings, etc are the problem.

Look, I would have had no problem with a true lockdown back in March, but the government concluded that McDonalds was an essential business and take out was essential, so it’s too late to back off now.

Aerosol spread indoors doesn’t care if you’re social distancing. After like 15-20 minutes, social distancing doesn’t mean a whole lot if you’re not wearing masks.

[BernieCarbo]

Aerosol spread indoors doesn’t care if you’re social distancing. After like 15-20 minutes, social distancing doesn’t mean a whole lot if you’re not wearing masks.

I said that from day one. In fact, when I reported here that several people tested positive at one place I work, the usual suspects jumped in and said they were probably lying about not meeting at bars after work even though they weren't. But the state has determined that if people stay seated while eating and then mask up while moving around, then it will be safe. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just follow them.

Bars and restaurants have been open for months, and the hours were shortened about six weeks ago. The numbers were declining steadily during that time. They have surged recently, and the state has determined that it has been due to private gatherings, since nothing has changed in the bar and restaurant situation. Even the limited contact tracing indicates that restaurants have nothing to do with the surge.

[BernieCarbo]

Aerosol spread indoors doesn’t care if you’re social distancing. After like 15-20 minutes, social distancing doesn’t mean a whole lot if you’re not wearing masks.

Oh, one other thing, when I recently said that the only way a vulnerable person could remain safe and be sure not to catch the virus was to isolate, I was told not to play doctor and they didn't need to isolate. But can they go indoors with masks or can't they? I personally wouldn't if I was vulnerable, but I haven't checked with my doctor.

[757690]

Oh, one other thing, when I recently said that the only way a vulnerable person could remain safe and be sure not to catch the virus was to isolate, I was told not to play doctor and they didn't need to isolate. But can they go indoors with masks or can't they? I personally wouldn't if I was vulnerable, but I haven't checked with my doctor.

Wear a N95 mask with a filter, stay six feet away from people, don’t stay inside for an extended period, wash your hands afterwards, and all the experts plus my doctors say you’ll be fine. This has been the advice for high risk people since day one.