Jonathan India

[Falls City Beer]

The good news is if his defense doesn't hold up at 3B, this team is desperate for offense from LF.

Lets get the bat going next year and worry about it when some of the pipeline actually arrives.

Does he have LF pop?

[RedTeamGo!]

We're ragging on India but he's still out OPS over Senzel.

I don’t understand this point. Senzel is a bust and doesn’t matter anymore.

[CySeymour]

Does he have LF pop?

If you go off his rookie year, I think it's fair to say he should be ok. Especially if he keeps up the on base skills he had during his first year.

[westofyou]

Does he have LF pop?

You don't need LF pop per se, it's where you hide bad glove guys with pop. If he can be Alex Gordon that is great, but that blocks a .875 OPS stone glove in today's game then that is an issue

[LeatherPants]

In July, the only month he seems to have been healthy, he had close to a 900 OPS in 100+ plate appearances. Rest him the rest of the year, let the hamstring get better, start fresh next year.

[TheBigLebowski]

As is the case for most of the Reds, 2022 was a total loss for India.

Confluence of a bad start, then an early, nagging injury and a goodly amount of bad luck. Never stayed healthy long enough to get in a groove.

India’s going to bounce back in 2023. Maybe he changes positions. He played a really good 3B at Florida. Maybe he stays put. Regardless, he’s still a big part of the team’s future.

[LeatherPants]

As is the case for most of the Reds, 2022 was a total loss for India.

Confluence of a bad start, then an early, nagging injury and a goodly amount of bad luck. Never stayed healthy long enough to get in a groove.

India’s going to bounce back in 2023. Maybe he changes positions. He played a really good 3B at Florida. Maybe he stays put. Regardless, he’s still a big part of the team’s future.

Well, short term future, since they’ll trade him about a year and a half before he hits free agency, but yes.

[RedTeamGo!]

Well, short term future, since they’ll trade him about a year and a half before he hits free agency, but yes.

This is honestly getting tired. Historically the reds are way more known for holding on to their homegrown players too long than trading them early.

[ShyGuy]

I had heard a story during spring training that India bulked up over the offseason because he has a tendency to lose a lot of weight over the course of a full season. He attributed his end of 2021 slump to a loss of weight/muscle. Wonder if this year changes his 2023 prep? I'm also curious if the IL time, leaving games would happen as often if this team were actually competitive? India took an absolute beating in 2021 from HPBs, collisions, etc and almost never left a game. I dont mean for this to come off overly critical as there is a human element to the game whether fans acknowledge that or not, but I do wonder if India just doesnt have the motivation he had a year ago?

I don't know how much good muscles on ball players especially 2nd basemen/SS's are.

I remember a player the Mets had in the 90's Rey Ordonez as short stop. Brilliant defense SS but not a strong hitter. So it looked like he bulked up one offseason (perhaps with help if you get my drift) and was never really the same after that.

I would think weighing less would make him more flexible. Imo he doesn't have to be a bodybuilder

[LeatherPants]

This is honestly getting tired. Historically the reds are way more known for holding on to their homegrown players too long than trading them early.

The last extension of note was Suarez in 2018.

Yet recent history, and what they’ve actually said this year, says otherwise. Just a couple months ago Phil C said that profitability comes first and Krall said that they have to keep the pipeline full. Just don’t get attached to these guys.

Not exactly sure why they should get the benefit of the doubt right now?


But feel free to put me on ignore if I bother you, it’s what it’s there for.

[RedTeamGo!]

Yet recent history, and what they’ve actually said this year, says otherwise. Just a couple months ago Phil C said that profitability comes first and Krall said that they have to keep the pipeline full. Just don’t get attached to these guys.

Not exactly sure why they should get the benefit of the doubt right now?


But feel free to put me on ignore if I bother you, it’s what it’s there for.

I meant the overall point is getting tired, it’s very common on social media. Ely De La Cruz will go viral for hitting a bomb. First tweet every single time “can’t wait for the Reds to trade him next year”

Obviously the Reds don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. India needs to put together some more good seasons before I would even consider extending him.

Just my opinion….it’s boring, unoriginal, and tired.

[Falls City Beer]

This is honestly getting tired. Historically the reds are way more known for holding on to their homegrown players too long than trading them early.

This really isn’t true. First, they seldom have talent worth keeping and second they usually trade them if they’re any good.

[RedTeamGo!]

This really isn’t true. First, they seldom have talent worth keeping and second they usually trade them if they’re any good.

False

Off the top of my head, players they held on too long:

Dunn
Frazier
Barnhart
Bruce
Phillips
Bailey
Cueto
Cozart
Chapman
Iglesias
Leake

Just ones I thought of in 10 seconds

The reds actually traded Castillo and Mahle exactly when they should have and folks are acting like the Reds are the Rays. It’s silly.

[RedsManRick]

This really isn’t true. First, they seldom have talent worth keeping and second they usually trade them if they’re any good.

I agree with RTG. Given that they're not going to run a top 10 payroll that would enable them to both keep their best in house talent and add meaningful FA talent on top of it, the problem has been precisely their unwillingness to trade the good talent that wasn't enough to actually win with.

They've been much too content with the strategy of building a 80 win talent roster made most of in-house, hoping for a combination of health and luck to sneak them in, and then trading the talent away at discount rates once they've lost most of their trade value.

[RedsManRick]

Not sure how much random fluctuation you see in these things tyhpically, but compared to last year, India's launch angle is up (13.1 -> 16.9), barrel rate is down (9.6 -> 3.6) and he's whiffing against fastballs more often while whiffing less against breaking stuff.

		  Runs/100		   % pitches		  wOBA		  	xwOBA			  Whiff%	
		2022	2021		2022	2021		2022	2021		2022	2021		2022	2021
4-Seamer	 0.2	 2.7		28.1	31.2		.345	.473		.279	.436		25.9	16.7
Sinker	 	 0.4	 0.1		20.1	21.8		.317	.315		.333	.279		11.3	38.4
Slider	 	 1.5	 0.7		19.5	18.8		.366	.382		.241	.346		29.8	13.7
Curveball	-1.6	 1.1		11.3	11.1		.153	.266		.203	.278		24.3	29.4
Changeup	-0.9    -1.0		10.7	10.5		.234	.292		.177	.290		27.3	34.6
Cutter	 	 1.2	 1.5		 8.3	 5.6		.313	.388		.310	.382		30.6	26.4
Splitter    	12.6	 2.7		 1.2	 0.9		.400	.322		.418	.214		33.3	53.3

Last year he thrived by absolutely destroying fastballs (.473 wOBA) and doing just OK against everything else in aggregate (.328 wOBA). This year he's doing just OK against fastballs (.345 wOBA) and poor against everything else (.293 wOBA).

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savan...histograms-mlb

Not sure what the scouting reason is, but he stopped hitting fastballs and walking in 2022. Not a good combo.