Reds vs. Padres 9-14-2006

[westofyou]

Well, consider that Allen would've ordered Hoffman's salary dumped long before this year anyhow.

Even your what if scenarios are a drag.

[dabvu2498]

The Bengals stumbled into the gate with an 8-8 record in Marvin's first year with that big old egg laid in the finale against the Browns, but it was evident to all but the most jaded and negative that he had a plan, could evaluate talent, and would not settle for mediocrity. He was also trying to do so with a bunch of holdovers from the predecessors, a few talented players, but mostly short timers and roster fillers.

I get a similar vibe with the new ownership and GM. In fact, the similarities in the transition, even though different sports and different economies, have been striking.

The ticket-buying public of this region doesn't appear to be agreeing with you. In 2003, people were actually coming to PBS... without half-priced tickets or dollar dogs.

[BrooklynRedz]

The ticket-buying public of this region doesn't appear to be agreeing with you. In 2003, people were actually coming to PBS... without half-priced tickets or dollar dogs.

Apples and oranges. NFL gives you eight home games vs 81 to sell out. Throw in the local blackout + no streaming video online. Even if the Bengals sold out every game in '03, the Reds attendance this season dwarfs the paltry 524k that came out to PBS to watch Marvin's first year.

[Heath]

Even your what if scenarios are a drag.

Kind of a drag
When your baby don't love you
Kind of a drag
When you know she's been untrue

Oh oh, listen to what I've gotta to say
Girl, I still love you
I'll always love you
Anyway, anyway, anyway

Kind of a drag
When your baby says goodbye
Kind of a drag
When you feel like you want to cry

Girl, even though you make me feel blue
I still love you
I'll always love you
Anyway, Anyway, Anyway

Oh, listen to what I've gotta say
Girl, I still love you
I'll always love you
Anyway, anyway, anyway

Oh, whoops, sorry - thought this thread was still in "lyric" mode.

My Bad. Carry On. Nothing to see here. Just walk on by.

[traderumor]

The ticket-buying public of this region doesn't appear to be agreeing with you. In 2003, people were actually coming to PBS... without half-priced tickets or dollar dogs.

Actually, Marvin was begging people to fill the house in the first season, especially after they were destroyed by Denver at home in their debut.
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...9-08-2003.html
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...1-06-2003.html
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...1-06-2003.html
Mike Brown was still fighting with politicians over Paul Brown Stadium issues
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...loc1abeng.html

Marvin was even pleading with people to not sell their tickets to Steelers' fans in game #3
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...9-16-2003.html

There was still a debate going on about letting Takeo Spikes walk, and the whole Corey Dillon drama
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...0-02-2003.html
http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/200...0-23-2003.html

So, it was not an easy sell, and you can check out that first season, article by article, http://www.cincypost.com/bengals/bengalsarchive03.html

[OldXOhio]

Nothing to see here. Just walk on by.

You're not gonna start singin Dionne Warwick now, are you?

[WMR]

No bad scars from this year. The boys made exponential gains, and competed into September. This will be the most exciting offseason since 1999/2000.
No Dante Bichette please.

Exponential gains?? Not IMO. Kriv has negated his positive moves this season with the Kearns/Felipe disaster.

A godawful National League is what allowed this team to compete into September.

[dsmith421]

In fact, the similarities in the transition, even though different sports and different economies, have been striking.

I tentatively disagree, but am curious to hear why precisely you think that Krivsky is producing the same kind of paradigm shift Lewis caused when he took over the Bengals.

[Mutaman]

"We've battled all year and showed a lot of heart and character....." manager Jerry Narron said.

Am I wrong, or does anybody else agree that down the stretch, this team certainly showed neither heart nor character.

[oneupper]

"We've battled all year and showed a lot of heart and character....." manager Jerry Narron said.

Am I wrong, or does anybody else agree that down the stretch, this team certainly showed neither heart nor character.

Hard to measure those...they just showed losing baseball.

My guess would be they were pressing. Which translated means "we were trying really hard but we lost".

[Falls City Beer]

I tentatively disagree, but am curious to hear why precisely you think that Krivsky is producing the same kind of paradigm shift Lewis caused when he took over the Bengals.

I call what Wayne's done Atavism 101: he's like Bowden's well-mannered twin. Goofy longshot trades and dumpster-diving.

[traderumor]

I tentatively disagree, but am curious to hear why precisely you think that Krivsky is producing the same kind of paradigm shift Lewis caused when he took over the Bengals.

Note that I attributed a shift to the new ownership along with Krivsky.

First, there was a shift in the ownership dynamic that allowed Lewis to first be hired, second to be given the latitude to build a football team his way, and third to put the emphasis on excellence on the field rather than being so focused on the team's financial condition. In essence, although Mike Brown was still the owner, it was like getting a new owner to see the change in his approach.

In the same way, Castellini has made it clear that his ownership group will fund the team when necessary, that he will let the GM build a team his way, and that he is committed to building a winning tradition, even if that sometimes hurts the team's financial condition in the short term.

The parallel with Krivsky is also striking. Marvin and Wayne both paid their dues as assistants to the top dog in their craft and were finally given the head job. They both inherited downtrodden franchises that underachieved or were undertalented, depending on the season. There were glaring holes in the rosters which even some quick fixes could not fix, but both have experienced some success. Neither seems to be resting on the taste of success or to feel like the job is done with .500 first seasons in the trenches. Both have the total confidence of the owner and are respected among their peers. Both had/have their detractors after one year of work because they improved but did not make broad, sweeping changes in the team's first year. Some key decisions have been widely criticized (Spikes, Dillon for Lewis, Kearns/Lopez deal), but then other moves have been applauded (drafting and sitting Palmer, the Homer Bailey situation, Arroyo/Phillips/Ross). So, that is why I see such similarities in their first season on the job. Time will tell if K continues to win folks over like Lewis did.

[redsmetz]

drafting and sitting Palmer

I've wondered about the sitting of Eddie E. - I think he's a better player for it. I know folks have been all up in arms about it, but I think there was a learning process there for him and he's the better for it.

[VR]

"We've battled all year and showed a lot of heart and character....." manager Jerry Narron said.

Am I wrong, or does anybody else agree that down the stretch, this team certainly showed neither heart nor character.

I think you're wrong. This team has shown heart and character. To prove it, I googled imaged 'heart and character'....and found the Red's performance the last month aptly characterized.

[traderumor]

"We've battled all year and showed a lot of heart and character....." manager Jerry Narron said.

Am I wrong, or does anybody else agree that down the stretch, this team certainly showed neither heart nor character.

You're wrong. Not enough horses, but I have not seen "lack of effort" as a reasonable explanation.