Covid-19 Part XVI

[kaldaniels]

Take care of yourselves and get healthy.

I posted on here 3 weeks ago that I tested positive. I had gotten my booster 3.5 weeks before getting exposed. The day I posted was actually day 3 of my symptoms, and that day ended up being my peak symptoms. It was a very mild case. I was a little run down - a kind of lazy tired feeling - had a bad taste in my mouth, a hoarse voice/throat and my lymph nodes were swollen. That was about it. By day 6, my energy was back up to about 80-90 percent. I had nuisance symptoms from days 6-10, including a two day stretch where my taste/smell was just off. It wasn't gone, but it was off with certain things. Milk tasted rancid for a day. By day 10, everything was normal again.

My wife caught it from me, getting symptoms and testing positive 5 days after me. She had similar symptoms as me, though her case hit her harder. Still relatively mild. She was fully vaxxed, but no booster. She was more tired and run down than I was and had a sore throat. She had the same deal where her energy largely returned by day 6, but she had nuisance symptoms such as taste/smell being off for a few days. Like me, by day 10 everything was normal for her again.

And then our 4-year-old caught COVID from my wife. This was a bit unsettling as he's too young for the vaccine. He started complaining of his head and belly hurting first. Then that night he vomited everywhere. He was up virtually all night that first night, complaining of a bad headache and a sore throat. That was beginning of a rotation of tylenol/motrin every few hours for him for the next several days.

The pediatrician was not very helpful, saying only treat the symptoms and take him to the ER if he has trouble breathing. Days 2 and 3 he laid on the couch watching cartoons, not doing much else. The headache lasted about 2 days for him. The sore throat was stubborn, lasting upwards of a full week. His energy returned on day 4, but he kept complaining of a sore throat. Finally on day 7 he stopped complaining about his throat hurting and seemed mostly recovered. That said, he also had a stretch of 2 days around days 8 and 9 where he was complaining that food "tasted funny" and things "don't smell right." And like us, that was temporary. By day 10, which was last weekend, he seemed perfectly fine.

We borrowed a pulse oximeter from our neighbor. Readings were all normal during our bout with COVID. What we all had in common was that it hit us in the throat the most, not chest/lungs and limited sinus issues other than my son's headaches. Thankfully we all seem to be fully recovered. And this was the first normal week for our family since essentially Christmas.

Glad you are recovered.

About the pediatrician - was it the demeanor that bothered you or the (technically speaking) lack of help? Because while I do suppose there wasn’t really much “help” given - what you were told does seem to be the standard of care. (I’ve talked to people (adults) who get thrown some steroids I suppose but most seem to be told what you were)

[Sea Ray]

Treatment of C19 has really been lacking in this country. It's been all about the vaccines and that's it

[KoryMac5]

Yep when my wife was diagnosed they gave her ibuprofen and instructions to come back if her lips turn blue...

[Bob Sheed]

Treatment of C19 has really been lacking in this country. It's been all about the vaccines and that's it

Why cure something when you can treat it instead? We'll get there...

[Sea Ray]

Even the CDC is admitting that natural immunity is better than the immunity I had by getting vaccinated last year:

CDC: Natural immunity stronger than vaccines alone during delta wave

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/co...ign=socialflow

[RiverRat13]

Even the CDC is admitting that natural immunity is better than the immunity I had by getting vaccinated last year:



https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/co...ign=socialflow

This is good news. It's not surprising at all but still good news. It will be received (like everything else covid) along political lines but at the end of the day it means we're that closer to C19 being endemic.

[RiverRat13]

[757690]

This is good news. It's not surprising at all but still good news. It will be received (like everything else covid) along political lines but at the end of the day it means we're that closer to C19 being endemic.

It’s not as good news as the title suggests. From the article:

The study has limits — namely, it was done before the omicron wave and doesn’t factor in any information about boosters. It does, however, broadly agree with studies from other countries.

Vaccines were more effective at preventing infection or serious illness than natural immunity from prior infections before the delta variant became the dominant strain. After delta became the main strain, vaccines alone grew weaker against the virus and natural immunity got much stronger. This could be due in large part to the fact that vaccines began wearing off around the time delta spread, according to the study.

Considering it doesn’t include any data from boosters, the study reveals more that the vaccine wanes in efficacy over time, than it does that natural immunity is more effective.

[RiverRat13]

It’s not as good news as the title suggests. From the article:





Considering it doesn’t include any data from boosters, the study reveals more that the vaccine wanes in efficacy over time, than it does that natural immunity is more effective.

A 55 fold decrease in bad outcomes is good news. Period.

Omicron evades antibodies but by any metric is more mild. And antibodies wane. B and T cell immunity stays strong. You're going to get it. You need to get over that fact. Once this Omicron wave passes the important metric becomes hospitalizations (meaning those hospitalized for covid, not with covid), not case count. This study is extremely good news.

[757690]

A 55 fold decrease in bad outcomes is good news. Period.

Omicron evades antibodies but by any metric is more mild. And antibodies wane. B and T cell immunity stays strong. You're going to get it. You need to get over that fact. Once this Omicron wave passes the important metric becomes hospitalizations (meaning those hospitalized for covid, not with covid), not case count. This study is extremely good news.

This study was before omicron. From the article:

The effectiveness of natural immunity with omicron, however, is not fully understood yet. The CDC warns both vaccines and natural immunity have declined with the new dominant variant.

[Sea Ray]

When Omicron data becomes available we can discuss it here. This is all we have for now. If there's an issue with vaccines waning over time then that is an issue. If natural immunity lasts longer than vaccinated immunity then once again, advantage: natural immunity

I wish the CDC would apply this science to their policies. They should state that natural immunity is equivalent to vax immunity and as such, a record of natural immunity should be accepted as would a vax card

[757690]

When Omicron data becomes available we can discuss it here. This is all we have for now. If there's an issue with vaccines waning over time then that is an issue. If natural immunity lasts longer than vaccinated immunity then once again, advantage: natural immunity

I wish the CDC would apply this science to their policies. They should state that natural immunity is equivalent to vax immunity and as such, a record of natural immunity should be accepted as would a vax card

Considering omicron is the dominant variant at this point, there isn’t much utility in discussing studies that came before it. And even less utility in discussing studies that don’t include boosters.

[Sea Ray]

Considering omicron is the dominant variant at this point, there isn’t much utility in discussing studies that came before it. And even less utility in discussing studies that don’t include boosters.

I disagree but we can at least now say this:

As of October (when this was being discussed here on RZ and elsewhere) the pro natural immunization folks were right

Furthermore, since this is the most recent science we have to go on, natural immunity should be accepted as equal to vaccinated immunity

[757690]

I disagree but we can at least now say this:

As of October (when this was being discussed here on RZ and elsewhere) the pro natural immunization folks were right

Furthermore, since this is the most recent science we have to go on, natural immunity should be accepted as equal to vaccinated immunity

The study really doesn’t say that the pro natural immunity people were right. Here is a recent article that shows that natural immunity and vaccine immunity were basically the same in terms of overall effectiveness. However, vaccine immunity was far preferable because natural immunity comes with the much higher risk of hospitalization and death when one first gets the virus.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...ural-immunity/

One important takeaway from all that pre-omicron research: Infection-induced immunity and vaccine-induced immunity are pretty similar.

Still, vaccine-induced immunity is a better choice, not because it produces a stronger immunity, but because it enables you to get the immunity without the side effects and risks that come along with illness — like a greater risk of stillbirth if you’re pregnant, or long COVID, hospitalization and death in general.

The pre-omicron research also indicated another downside to natural immunity: namely, that it can be more variable. All immunity differs from person to person and holds up better against some variants than others. But infection-induced immunity can also be more or less effective depending on how severe your case of COVID was

[RiverRat13]

However, vaccine immunity was far preferable because natural immunity comes with the much higher risk of hospitalization and death when one first gets the virus.

This is such a strawman. If you've never had covid, you should absolutely be vaccinated. If you've had covid, you should be considered the same as anyone who was vaccinated. If people run out and have covid parties to try to get natural immunity, they deserve what they get.

Omicron is evading antibodies, both natural and vaccine induced. The bigger question it T-cells. T-cells are what prevent bad outcomes. Both prior infection and vaccine generated T cells are holding up just fine - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....16.22269361v1
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-022-01700-x

To say we should disregard any study prior to Omicron is just completely illogical considering we absolutely know that Omicron is less virulent. Stop following Eric Feigl-Ding and start following Monica Gandhi.