Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[Falls City Beer]

The base of below market and highly productive talent in the rotation and lineup would have allowed for this team to be competitive in the 09-10 window given the right set of additions -- ones which could have been made within a reasonable payroll allowance and willingness to trade possible future production for present production.

To date, the Reds approach has been to add marginal talent and pray. If it's not going to happen in 2009-2010, then why waste your money on Tavares -- just play Dickerson or Hopper and be done with it. If you're trying to win in 2009-2010 and you know you need to improve both offensively and defensively, then how does adding Willy Taveras help? Regardless of what you're trying to accomplish in 2009, adding Taveras doesn't seem to make any sense.

The Reds needed three relievers and at bare minimum one very good starter starter, a defense, and a part of an offense to contend. In one offseason. Good luck with that.

[RedsManRick]

The Reds needed three relievers and at bare minimum one very good starter starter, a defense, and a part of an offense to contend. In one offseason. Good luck with that.

So given the difficulty of adding a lot of pieces, add one that doesn't provide any benefit? I fully understand the scope of the challenge. I just don't understand how the difficulty of the task justifies taking steps in the wrong direction.

If Tavares is a bridge to a better team in the future, he's redundant. If he's part of the immediate solution to the mound of problems you've identified, he's a pretty poor one. In either case, I don't see the logic.

[Falls City Beer]

And FWIW, I wasn't talking about this board anyway. I was talking about this city.

Fair enough, but you can understand my confusion. "Here" usually means here.

And I was referring to the acquisition of Tavares thread, the one where it was Krusty, icehole, and SirCharles against a crowd.

[Falls City Beer]

So given the difficulty of adding a lot of pieces, add one that doesn't provide any benefit? I fully understand the scope of the challenge. I just don't understand how the difficulty of the task justifies taking steps in the wrong direction.

If Tavares is a bridge to a better team in the future, he's redundant. If he's part of the immediate solution to the mound of problems you've identified, he's a pretty poor one. In either case, I don't see the logic.

I'm not defending the Tavares acquisition; I thought it was bad.

[GADawg]

what's the record for number of pages in a single thread anyway? This thing is outta control.

[Blitz Dorsey]

what's the record for number of pages in a single thread anyway? This thing is outta control.

Let's just say Erik Bedard is not getting nervous yet.

[Marty and Joe]

Are we really at 42 pages and 620+ posts about signing Taveras?!

[Ltlabner]

Are we really at 42 pages and 620+ posts about signing Taveras?!

The lure of speed has many odd effects.

[Ltlabner]

Every game, you'll hear the Public Address announcer say "Leading off for the Reds, the center fielder WILLY TAVERAS!" And, roughly 70% of the time, the Reds will begin the game with nobody on, 1 out.

Of all the posts this sums it up nicely.

I've yet to read a single response from the few supporters of this move that remotely comes close to explaining minor detail away.

[Highlifeman21]

BS. Simply put....BS. I don't have to look at numbers to prove it. I watch the games. Players will go a week without drawing a walk even if they normally walk at a high rate.

You must not watch that many games then.

Guys that normally walk at a high rate will continue to walk at a high rate when they aren't putting the ball in play and are experiencing an AVG slump. Sure, it might be a slightly lower rate than their normal walk rate, but it's not like they'll slump taking walks while they're slumping in the AVG department.

[Highlifeman21]

More overstatement.

Taveras has a .331 lifetime OBP, which is decent.

Taveras is a good defender in centerfield. No, he's not a top centerfielder like Patterson, but I haven't heard anyone say he's "never been a good defender" except on Redszone.

Maybe the Rockies didn't want to arbitrate with him because he led the league in steals and might get a high salary in arbitration.

Let's see how it works out. Sorry, just not as sure of the future as some around here are.

Decent is being generous.

As a leadoff hitter, a lifetime .331 OBP is crap. If it were closer to .350, some people might stomach Taveras, but his career OBP isn't, so many people can't.

[Ltlabner]

This been said a couple times now, and lost in the noise:

Tavaras is a batting average driven player, now playing in a park that suppresses doubles and triples.

He's also devoid of any SLG abilities in a park built around sluggers.

He's creates outs at a rapid pace, at the front of a line-up that creates outs at a rapid pace.

Seriously. I know this thread is lengthy but how anyone can support this signing is beyond me. Hell, Redmetz had a snarky post about it somewhere a thousand posts ago. That ought to tell us something.

[Ltlabner]

[Highlifeman21]

Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.

Dumping Arroyo's salary, IMO, would be money better spent elsewhere on the roster.

[Highlifeman21]

You know it is a slow offseason when we are all getting bent out of shape over the Reds acquiring Willy Taveras. I hate to see it when Jocketty acquires that righthanded hitter for the middle of the lineup.

Especially when that RHB is Pat Burrell, and he's making at least $15 Million per year for at least 4 years...

That'll go over well...