Reds sign Curt Casali to 1y deal, DFA Moustakas

[MoneyInTheBank]

I posted this in another thread but seems relevant to the discussion...

2021

Stephenson
132 games played (80 starter, 52 sub)
102 games in the field (30 PH only)

Barnhart
116 games played (97 starter, 19 sub)
104 games in the field (12 PH only)

Casali
77 games played (55 starter, 22 sub)
67 games in the field (10 PH only)

Maile
15 games played (7 starter, 8 sub)
13 games in the field (2 PH only)

2022

Casali
57 games played (50 starter, 7 sub)
57 games in the field (did not record a plate appearance in 3 games)

Maile
76 games played (55 starter, 21 sub)
76 games in the field (did not record a plate appearance in 13 games)

Looking at the above, I do think there is a path to Stephenson starting 100 at catcher while making the other catchers a worthwhile investment. Maile starting 15 games and finishing another 20-25. Casali starting the remaining 47, getting 5 PH appearances and finishing another 5 games.

Stephenson 150 games (100 C, 50 1B/DH, 12 rest/DL)
Casali 57 games
Maile 35-40 games

[JCM11]

If the penny pinching cheapskate Reds planned on starting Stephenson 100 games at C in 2023 they wouldn't have guaranteed 3.25 million to Casali after signing Maile. The writing is on the wall as far as Stephenson behind the plate is concerned. I think they will take this year to evaluate how he does health wise and then they may plan on him starting around 100 games in 2024 if he holds up for 60 or so games this year. This is the one thing the Reds are doing right IMO. There's no need to run Stephenson out there and get beat up for 100+ games behind the plate in a lost season.

[MoneyInTheBank]

If the penny pinching cheapskate Reds planned on starting Stephenson 100 games at C in 2023 they wouldn't have guaranteed 3.25 million to Casali after signing Maile. The writing is on the wall as far as Stephenson behind the plate is concerned. I think they will take this year to evaluate how he does health wise and then they may plan on him starting around 100 games in 2024 if he holds up for 60 or so games this year. This is the one thing the Reds are doing right IMO. There's no need to run Stephenson out there and get beat up for 100+ games behind the plate in a lost season.

The penny pinching cheapskate Reds paid Moose $20M+ to either sit at home or play somewhere else.

Honestly, I think it's a correction to the mistake they made last offseason by having zero depth behind Stephenson.

[MoneyInTheBank]

He has the best plate approach I have seen on the Reds since prime Votto. And he will always give you defensive flexibility at the catchers position. I know you’re of the thought he’s just another guy if he’s not catching, but non-platoon bats with plate approach and on base ability are not just another dude. Especially with that kind of positional flexibility. Sure, trade him if you get blown away, but no reason to just drop the guy or shop him around.

The argument isn't that he becomes "just a guy" but an .850 OPS catcher is the elite of the elite. An .850 OPS 1B is good, not great. If someone will pay elite C price for someone you plan on playing a pretty good 1B, you have to consider that, IMO.

[Kc61]

If the penny pinching cheapskate Reds planned on starting Stephenson 100 games at C in 2023 they wouldn't have guaranteed 3.25 million to Casali after signing Maile. The writing is on the wall as far as Stephenson behind the plate is concerned. I think they will take this year to evaluate how he does health wise and then they may plan on him starting around 100 games in 2024 if he holds up for 60 or so games this year. This is the one thing the Reds are doing right IMO. There's no need to run Stephenson out there and get beat up for 100+ games behind the plate in a lost season.

I agree with the first point. Reds didn’t hire all these catchers to sit. People are trying to find rationales for keeping Tyler behind the plate 100 games, but the objective facts point in the opposite direction.

As to the second part, as long as Stephenson hits, the Reds will probably continue to reduce his catching time. They won’t trust the notion that he’ll be healthy and fine behind the plate. Simply put, they want Tyler’s bat in the lineup.

[Old school 1983]

The argument isn't that he becomes "just a guy" but an .850 OPS catcher is the elite of the elite. An .850 OPS 1B is good, not great. If someone will pay elite C price for someone you plan on playing a pretty good 1B, you have to consider that, IMO.

I believe I’ve heard leather pants use the terminology just another guy in previous conversations on this topic. Sure, 850 is elite at catching, and very good at 1b. And very good at DH. But it’s not an exclusive argument to any of those places. He can cover them all. And frankly, given his plate approach, he has a shot to be better than any of the guys that were traded last year that everyone was up in arms about. He has years of control too with really no one to knock him out of his position coming up. IMO he’s a keeper unless you get blown away by an offer from another team. No need to shop him. Let them come to you.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I agree with the first point. Reds didn’t hire all these catchers to sit. People are trying to find rationales for keeping Tyler behind the plate 100 games, but the objective facts point in the opposite direction.

I gave a scenario where Stephenson catches 100, while still using the catchers they signed in similar roles to how they've been used in the past. This was by no means a prediction. However, here are some objective facts. Luke Maile is a 31 year old career AAA shuttle guy with a .582 OPS who signed for just over $1M after being non-tendered and Casali is a 34 year old career backup/part-timer. The prospect of them getting the bulk of the catching duties when you have a 26 year old all-star talent seems like plenty good rationale.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I believe I’ve heard leather pants use the terminology just another guy in previous conversations on this topic. Sure, 850 is elite at catching, and very good at 1b. And very good at DH. But it’s not an exclusive argument to any of those places. He can cover them all. And frankly, given his plate approach, he has a shot to be better than any of the guys that were traded last year that everyone was up in arms about. He has years of control too with really no one to knock him out of his position coming up. IMO he’s a keeper unless you get blown away by an offer from another team. No need to shop him. Let them come to you.

He can't cover them all though. He can only play one at a time. When he's not catching this year, his replacement will be Casali/Maile/Romine. When he's not playing 1B/DH, his replacement is Votto/Steer/Myers/CES. I feel much better about the 1B/DH group.

I feel like we are saying the exact same thing as far as trading him.

[Kc61]

I gave a scenario where Stephenson catches 100, while still using the catchers they signed in similar roles to how they've been used in the past. This was by no means a prediction. However, here are some objective facts. Luke Maile is a 31 year old career AAA shuttle guy with a .582 OPS who signed for just over $1M after being non-tendered and Casali is a 34 year old career backup/part-timer. The prospect of them getting the bulk of the catching duties when you have a 26 year old all-star talent seems like plenty good rationale.

I didn’t direct my comments to any post in particular. Reds had a .676 OPS last year, Stephenson is an .823 OPS lifetime hitter, and he missed 112 games last season. Against this backdrop, they went out and acquired three catchers with meaningful major league experience. There is a DH spot available on the team when Tyler doesn’t catch.

The conclusion I draw from these facts is Reds need Stephenson’s bat in the lineup, will protect him by catching others much of the time, and will err on the side of less catching for him rather than more. The DH spot provides a perfect opportunity to accomplish this.

[MoneyInTheBank]

I didn’t direct my comments to any post in particular. Reds had a .676 OPS last year, Stephenson is an .823 OPS lifetime hitter, and he missed 112 games last season. Against this backdrop, they went out and acquired three catchers with meaningful major league experience. There is a DH spot available on the team when Tyler doesn’t catch.

The conclusion I draw from these facts is Reds need Stephenson’s bat in the lineup, will protect him by catching others much of the time, and will err on the side of less catching for him rather than more. The DH spot provides a perfect opportunity to accomplish this.

Stephenson wants to catch. He thinks he can stay healthy catching. Giving him time at DH is a brilliant idea. I just don't see them dialing back from where he was in 2021 with Tucker Barnhart, which was roughly a 50/50 split

[HokieRed]

I wouldn't be surprised to see all three of the catchers in the lineup at the same time against some lefthanders. Maile behind the plate, Stephenson at first, Casali in the DH spot. Casali is an offensive positive in his own right against LHers: 844 OPS last year (small sample, 68 PA) but also .770 lifetime.

[Kc61]

Stephenson wants to catch. He thinks he can stay healthy catching. Giving him time at DH is a brilliant idea. I just don't see them dialing back from where he was in 2021 with Tucker Barnhart, which was roughly a 50/50 split

I could see 81 games for Tyler catching, yes. 50/50.

[Old school 1983]

He can't cover them all though. He can only play one at a time. When he's not catching this year, his replacement will be Casali/Maile/Romine. When he's not playing 1B/DH, his replacement is Votto/Steer/Myers/CES. I feel much better about the 1B/DH group.

I feel like we are saying the exact same thing as far as trading him.

Well duh. But he’s not pigeon holed into one of them. Being able to cover multiple spots. Especially ones with no other mlb cover or prospects coming up gives value. And really, it seems like we are close to the same opinion on trading him. I’m just not shopping him. But I’d listen if blown away.

[mth123]

The argument isn't that he becomes "just a guy" but an .850 OPS catcher is the elite of the elite. An .850 OPS 1B is good, not great. If someone will pay elite C price for someone you plan on playing a pretty good 1B, you have to consider that, IMO.

OTOH, the world knows about Stephenson's concussions and that the .850 OPS only came with 183 PAs. The best way to increase his value is to get that .850 OPS over 500+ PAs. I'd probably err on the side of getting him more PAs even if it means forgetting about Catcher.

[MoneyInTheBank]

OTOH, the world knows about Stephenson's concussions and that the .850 OPS only came with 183 PAs. The best way to increase his value is to get that .850 OPS over 500+ PAs. I'd probably err on the side of getting him more PAs even if it means forgetting about Catcher.

If he's that fragile, more of a reason to trade him before the chickens come home to roost

- - - Updated - - -

Well duh. But he’s not pigeon holed into one of them. Being able to cover multiple spots. Especially ones with no other mlb cover or prospects coming up gives value. And really, it seems like we are close to the same opinion on trading him. I’m just not shopping him. But I’d listen if blown away.

He's not but you can move just about anyone down the defensive spectrum to 1B. The same can't be said for C.