What will it take for Reds fans to forgive the Castellinis?

[SidneySlicker]

Exactly. There's two issues here.

Issue 1 is the economic disparity between teams.

Issue 2 is that Reds ownership is using issue 1 as an excuse to not even try, and instead just milk the organization and fan base.

Issue 2 is the bigger problem, as a Reds fan.

So, they should overpay players in an effort just to spend? Good players have options. The only way you get a player like that is to overpay and bring in potentially bad contracts that kill organizational flexibility. I'd rather spend that money in scouting, development and in the international pool and in signing bonuses on players in the draft and try and develop a strong system that creates a mostly self sustaining system of developing and reloading the major league team. If they can execute that and get good, I don't have an issue in spending to be fiscally responsible and add a piece or two to the roster to fill a hole. I'm just not on board to overpaying for players that aren't good to justify their contract and roster spot. That's how you get into situations like they did with Mike Moustakas.

[Wonderful Monds]

So, they should overpay players in an effort just to spend? Good players have options. The only way you get a player like that is to overpay and bring in potentially bad contracts that kill organizational flexibility. I'd rather spend that money in scouting, development and in the international pool and in signing bonuses on players in the draft and try and develop a strong system that creates a mostly self sustaining system of developing and reloading the major league team. If they can execute that and get good, I don't have an issue in spending to be fiscally responsible and add a piece or two to the roster to fill a hole. I'm just not on board to overpaying for players that aren't good to justify their contract and roster spot. That's how you get into situations like they did with Mike Moustakas.

[SidneySlicker]

That's the bigger problem with big market vs small market. If a big market takes on a player that ends up being a bad contract, they can sit him on the bench or they can cut him because a bad contract isn't going to limit them and what theyr'e trying to do. A bad contract or 2 can cripple a small market team, because they don't have the luxury of benching or just cutting a bad contract. That's why the answer isn't in just spending more and more money. It's about learning how to run an organization that excels at identifying, acquiring, and developing young talent rather than trying to build through free agency.

[Wonderful Monds]

That's the bigger problem with big market vs small market. If a big market takes on a player that ends up being a bad contract, they can sit him on the bench or they can cut him because a bad contract isn't going to limit them and what theyr'e trying to do. A bad contract or 2 can cripple a small market team, because they don't have the luxury of benching or just cutting a bad contract. That's why the answer isn't in just spending more and more money. It's about learning how to run an organization that excels at identifying, acquiring, and developing young talent rather than trying to build through free agency.

They should be doing both. Every team in baseball has the resources to not be crippled by a Mike Moustakas contract. Letting that happen to your team is purely a matter of choice.

[Bob Sheed]

So, they should overpay players in an effort just to spend? Good players have options. The only way you get a player like that is to overpay and bring in potentially bad contracts that kill organizational flexibility. I'd rather spend that money in scouting, development and in the international pool and in signing bonuses on players in the draft and try and develop a strong system that creates a mostly self sustaining system of developing and reloading the major league team. If they can execute that and get good, I don't have an issue in spending to be fiscally responsible and add a piece or two to the roster to fill a hole. I'm just not on board to overpaying for players that aren't good to justify their contract and roster spot. That's how you get into situations like they did with Mike Moustakas.

You work with the hand you are dealt. Or fold.

The problem with this poker analogy, is Reds ownership has given up and decided to fold because they feel they've been dealt a lousy hand. Which would be fine, except they're still at the table, pretending to play after they already folded.

Because win or lose, they are paid a king's ransom whether they play or fold.

[RedTeamGo!]

So, they should overpay players in an effort just to spend? Good players have options. The only way you get a player like that is to overpay and bring in potentially bad contracts that kill organizational flexibility. I'd rather spend that money in scouting, development and in the international pool and in signing bonuses on players in the draft and try and develop a strong system that creates a mostly self sustaining system of developing and reloading the major league team. If they can execute that and get good, I don't have an issue in spending to be fiscally responsible and add a piece or two to the roster to fill a hole. I'm just not on board to overpaying for players that aren't good to justify their contract and roster spot. That's how you get into situations like they did with Mike Moustakas.

No one is saying overpay players. They are saying pay players. The reds refuse to do that. Luis Castillo has said he wanted to talk to the reds about an extension and they didn't even put forth a good faith effort. Castillo just extended with the Mariners for peanuts. If Castillo is telling the truth that he wanted to stay in Cinci and the contract he got the from the Mariners is what it would have taken, that is not a situation where the reds would have overpaid a player. It would have been a situation where the Reds underpaid a player, and they refused to do even that.

Imagine a rotation for the next 4 seasons of:

Castillo
Lodolo
Greene
Ashcraft
Who Cares

Sigh.

[LeatherPants]

No one is saying overpay players. They are saying pay players. The reds refuse to do that. Luis Castillo has said he wanted to talk to the reds about an extension and they didn't even put forth a good faith effort. Castillo just extended with the Mariners for peanuts. If Castillo is telling the truth that he wanted to stay in Cinci and the contract he got the from the Mariners is what it would have taken, that is not a situation where the reds would have overpaid a player. It would have been a situation where the Reds underpaid a player, and they refused to do even that.

Imagine a rotation for the next 4 seasons of:

Castillo
Lodolo
Greene
Ashcraft
Who Cares

Sigh.

Heck, add Sonny Gray as the 5th starter who would still be under contract. Add a couple bullpen arms and you have a team that could contend for a playoff spot, and whose payroll would still be way under league average so the owners could still make a nice profit.

[MoneyInTheBank]

So, they should overpay players in an effort just to spend? Good players have options. The only way you get a player like that is to overpay and bring in potentially bad contracts that kill organizational flexibility. I'd rather spend that money in scouting, development and in the international pool and in signing bonuses on players in the draft and try and develop a strong system that creates a mostly self sustaining system of developing and reloading the major league team. If they can execute that and get good, I don't have an issue in spending to be fiscally responsible and add a piece or two to the roster to fill a hole. I'm just not on board to overpaying for players that aren't good to justify their contract and roster spot. That's how you get into situations like they did with Mike Moustakas.

IMO, adding a piece or two to fill a hole when they saw a window is exactly how they got Moustakas. I don't think there should be anything controversial about paying good players what they are worth.

I think you have to use all avenues of acquiring players to build something successful and sustainable. Adding veterans via trade and free agency, subtracting veterans via trade and free agency, adding prospects through the draft and trade. Simply going the prospect route introduces massive volatility.

[Kingspoint]

What did they do to a tax collector in Boston January 20th, 1774?

- - - Updated - - -

They may own the team, but they are just stewards of the franchise.

[Slyder]

1. Fire Phil from any further team responsibilities or sale the franchise.
2. Open the raw books, not the fancy accountant tricked out ones and PROVE you’re not just milking the cow.
3. Quit crying about windows, you know who never talks about windows and is usually right in the middle of things? St. Louis.
4. You know who’s had 1 year of 90+ losses since 2005? Milwaukee.
5. 5 year financial commitment to at least be competitive, you don’t have to show me 200+ million, but this 80 million garbage won’t fly.
6. Commitment to SOMEBODY.
7. Always be looking for buy low candidates. Our last run wouldn’t have materialized without acquiring Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo, Mar Latos. You create your window by being active not by doing what we did and just throwing money at random guys with names.

[Tony Cloninger]

What did they do to a tax collector in Boston January 20th, 1774?

- - - Updated - - -

They may own the team, but they are just stewards of the franchise.

Tat and Feather.

Of course going all French Revolution Reign of Terror is on the table.

[TRF]

No one is saying overpay players. They are saying pay players. The reds refuse to do that. Luis Castillo has said he wanted to talk to the reds about an extension and they didn't even put forth a good faith effort. Castillo just extended with the Mariners for peanuts. If Castillo is telling the truth that he wanted to stay in Cinci and the contract he got the from the Mariners is what it would have taken, that is not a situation where the reds would have overpaid a player. It would have been a situation where the Reds underpaid a player, and they refused to do even that.

Imagine a rotation for the next 4 seasons of:

Castillo
Lodolo
Greene
Ashcraft
Who Cares

Sigh.

I'm being a bit contrarian here, but the Reds have 3 of 4, and remember how many teams tried to get rid of Castillo? The Marlins still exist. They'll be dumb in evaluating talent as long as they exist.

And the Reds absolutely PILLAGED Seattle. And Minnesota. And to a lesser extent, the Mets and Padres. I'm sad Castillo is gone too. But I'm fairly passed it. I'm very excited about Steer, CES, Marte, Arroyo, Acuna, Acosta, Stoudt, Williamson, Petty, Northcutt, Dunn, Fraley, Phillips...

I can't get down on the team in March. maybe I'll be jaded in June, but not March.

Remember, Baseball means Spring is here...

[mikemo14]

Winning 70 games this year, 80 next year, 90 in 2025 and 100 and a world championship in 2026 and all will be forgiven.

[NeilHamburger]

Selling is the only way I'd forgive them.

The Rock is reportedly looking to get into the sports ownership game.

Could Cincy smell what he's cooking?

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/artic...16454_38615739

[westofyou]

Selling is the only way I'd forgive them.

The Rock is reportedly looking to get into the sports ownership game.

Could Cincy smell what he's cooking?

https://www.yardbarker.com/nhl/artic...16454_38615739

Is he from Cincinnati?

If not then, no

Sorry that's the rule